Hey all,
Just wondering what is the best, most reliable way of extracting a 100 ponies out of a type 1 1600?
Great to hear your thoughts.
hobbit Learner Dubber
13 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
100 hp type 1
trickysimon 100km/h is only 9 seconds away
1,473 posts · joined Dec 2007 ·
Adding displacement
colonel mustard Son of Jim - Creator of Good
2,829 posts · joined Feb 2009 ·
Well it depends how you want to look at it... You can easy get 100hp out of a 1916... Depends how much cash you have and how often you will drive it
hobbit Learner Dubber
13 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
is there much size/weight difference between the 1916 and type 1?
For displacement which way works best, as in bang for buck and reliability?
For displacement which way works best, as in bang for buck and reliability?
trickysimon 100km/h is only 9 seconds away
1,473 posts · joined Dec 2007 ·
The only size and weight difference is going to be the exhaust system and carb/carbies that you will most likely fit with the added displacement.
For bang for buck and reliability I would go 1915, although some people may tell you to go 1776 for added cylinder thickness.
For bang for buck and reliability I would go 1915, although some people may tell you to go 1776 for added cylinder thickness.
vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday
16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
u will get 100 different versions
but u can get 100hp out of a 1600 depending on how much money u have
Do u have any idea of a budget ???
Where r u located sydney melb bris ??? or the back of sacsusactuian
we can suggest a place u may visit
maybe you should pay a isit to a local VW shop and see what they have to offer
but u can get 100hp out of a 1600 depending on how much money u have
Do u have any idea of a budget ???
Where r u located sydney melb bris ??? or the back of sacsusactuian
we can suggest a place u may visit
maybe you should pay a isit to a local VW shop and see what they have to offer
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409
hobbit Learner Dubber
13 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
Located on the north side of brisbane.
As for budget, I'd like to spend as little as possible but willing to spend if it means reliablilty. ( if that make sense? ) A 1600 is not set in stone but I've heard they are strong and a good starting point.
Cheers..
As for budget, I'd like to spend as little as possible but willing to spend if it means reliablilty. ( if that make sense? ) A 1600 is not set in stone but I've heard they are strong and a good starting point.
Cheers..
Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds
2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
A stock VW 1600 engine produces 50 PS (DIN), which is 60-bhp SAE. That's just 37 kW. Remember that you are wanting to double the power output of a 35-year old engine.
This can be done, but you aren't going to do it by 'spending as little as possible'. To start with, buy the latest copy of VWMA and find some recommended VW workshop in Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast - there are lots of adverts to help you choose. Go along to them, talk to the bosses and tell them what you wnat and what are prepared to spend. They will tell you what is possible.
You can get lots of great performance out of a VW engine, but to do it properly you'll need as many brand new parts as possible. Case, cylinders, pistons, heads, carbs and manifolds, exhaust, electrics, plumbing... then there's the machining and assembly work. You should be thinking of at least $5K to start with.
This can be done, but you aren't going to do it by 'spending as little as possible'. To start with, buy the latest copy of VWMA and find some recommended VW workshop in Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast - there are lots of adverts to help you choose. Go along to them, talk to the bosses and tell them what you wnat and what are prepared to spend. They will tell you what is possible.
You can get lots of great performance out of a VW engine, but to do it properly you'll need as many brand new parts as possible. Case, cylinders, pistons, heads, carbs and manifolds, exhaust, electrics, plumbing... then there's the machining and assembly work. You should be thinking of at least $5K to start with.
fish26 Fahrvergnugen
903 posts · joined Jul 2007 ·
Power is in the heads/cam/carbs combo, reliability is in machining, balancing, oiling, cooling, driving and maintenance.
You really need to figure out how much actual $$ you wish to spend, "as little as possible" is way too vague for people to give you feedback on.
1600, 1776 or 1915 with hand ported, chambered heads, W120, 9:1, twin carbs, etc etc will easily get you over the 100.
And no, for 100hp you don't need a lot of new parts, VW did quiet well with the stock internals that can handle in excess of 3 times the original power output, you will however need to do some machining and balancing.
You really need to figure out how much actual $$ you wish to spend, "as little as possible" is way too vague for people to give you feedback on.
1600, 1776 or 1915 with hand ported, chambered heads, W120, 9:1, twin carbs, etc etc will easily get you over the 100.
And no, for 100hp you don't need a lot of new parts, VW did quiet well with the stock internals that can handle in excess of 3 times the original power output, you will however need to do some machining and balancing.
bitten by the bug..........several times
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
The old saying of " you can only have 2 of the 3 - power, reliability, cheap"
Are you talking about 100hp at the wheels or flywheel?
A well setup 1916 with mild to medium mods will produce that amount of power at the flywheel (or about 75 hp at the wheels). have a look in the racing seciton at the dyno charts to get an idea.
A 1600 with that sort of power is going to cost far more than a 1776/1916. You will ahve to rev it more, which requires a stronger bottom end, and better flowing heads.
You can do it one of 2 ways.
1) sort our your budget, minus 15% and then talk to builders about what they can do for the money (there is always little things that pop up, ie the 15% less than your budget.
2) ask for a certian power output and know you have enough.........
Are you talking about 100hp at the wheels or flywheel?
A well setup 1916 with mild to medium mods will produce that amount of power at the flywheel (or about 75 hp at the wheels). have a look in the racing seciton at the dyno charts to get an idea.
A 1600 with that sort of power is going to cost far more than a 1776/1916. You will ahve to rev it more, which requires a stronger bottom end, and better flowing heads.
You can do it one of 2 ways.
1) sort our your budget, minus 15% and then talk to builders about what they can do for the money (there is always little things that pop up, ie the 15% less than your budget.
2) ask for a certian power output and know you have enough.........
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
Go hard or go home!!!!
colin Fahrvergnugen
984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·
I,ll just add heads, carbs, cam, exhaust.fish26 wrote:Power is in the heads/cam/carbs combo, reliability is in machining, balancing, oiling, cooling, driving and maintenance.
You really need to figure out how much actual $$ you wish to spend, "as little as possible" is way too vague for people to give you feedback on.
1600, 1776 or 1915 with hand ported, chambered heads, W120, 9:1, twin carbs, etc etc will easily get you over the 100.
And no, for 100hp you don't need a lot of new parts, VW did quiet well with the stock internals that can handle in excess of 3 times the original power output, you will however need to do some machining and balancing.
Cheers Col
hobbit Learner Dubber
13 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
thanks all for the input. The 100 hp I'm looking for is at the flywheel and i"m liking the idea of a 1776 as I'd prefer bottom end power and less rev's. As for the budget, 5k sounds reasonable. I'm just trying to get some advice so I don't spend my money on magic beans that don't make my project engine perform any better. Reliability is the key for this project so I'm basically after some do's and don'ts.
thanks again all for the advice.
thanks again all for the advice.
Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l
12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
read read read
Check out tech articles at aircooled.net and also the Cal Look Forum
Check out tech articles at aircooled.net and also the Cal Look Forum
Futue te ipsum!!!
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Bizzare, had an old 1776 that made about 70hp atw?, which is about 100hp at the flywheel. I also has a 1776, never dynoed but I think i would have been about 100 hp at the FW.
std balanced bottom end.
Std ported and polished heads
std valves sizes (3 angle valve job)
40mm dell's
extractors (cheaper, not a full merge)
everything was well balanced.
W100 cam.
009 dizzy.
It cost about 3 grand (on a rebuild of old motor with most parts jsut tidied, ie new valved in old heads, rebished conrods etc etc) that was about 9 years ago though......
std balanced bottom end.
Std ported and polished heads
std valves sizes (3 angle valve job)
40mm dell's
extractors (cheaper, not a full merge)
everything was well balanced.
W100 cam.
009 dizzy.
It cost about 3 grand (on a rebuild of old motor with most parts jsut tidied, ie new valved in old heads, rebished conrods etc etc) that was about 9 years ago though......
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
Go hard or go home!!!!
hobbit Learner Dubber
13 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
Hmm, Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it
4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·
Turbo?
luftwagen Learner Dubber
17 posts · joined Nov 2009 ·
OK, lets just say money is not an issue, what would be the difference in regards to reliability and performance between a 1776 and a 1916 assuming both are built by the same person using the same quality of parts to produce 100hp?
Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it
4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·
Some may say better reliability from the 1916 compared to thinner wall 1776 but this could be argued all day.
It would come down to the difference between the cost of the 1776 vs 1916 p&b kit plus the machining to fit the 94s.
However it's still $ proportional to HP but if money wasn't an issue go the 1916.
It would come down to the difference between the cost of the 1776 vs 1916 p&b kit plus the machining to fit the 94s.
However it's still $ proportional to HP but if money wasn't an issue go the 1916.
Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang
9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·
other way round, 90.5s are thicker than 94s but not by much, unless your thinking of 92s/1835, they make paper look thick
if your going to the effort of having case and heads bored 1916 makes more sense as the parts are similar price and machining is no different but u end up with more capacity
there are exceptions, i went 1776 over 1916 cos i knew it would end up force fed, i dont like how close 1916 cuts to the case savers depending on the size studs used
perfectly fine on an NA motor but theres a hmmmmmm factor when u add boost
if your going to the effort of having case and heads bored 1916 makes more sense as the parts are similar price and machining is no different but u end up with more capacity
there are exceptions, i went 1776 over 1916 cos i knew it would end up force fed, i dont like how close 1916 cuts to the case savers depending on the size studs used
perfectly fine on an NA motor but theres a hmmmmmm factor when u add boost
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
sure could with that typoStanley wrote:Some may say better reliability from the 1916 compared to thinner wall 1776 but this could be argued all day.
dekkerboy Slammed & Awesome Dubber
96 posts · joined Oct 2009 ·
I would go the 1915 the price between them is bearly anything, i am in the same boat as you but im going to go the 1915 because its nearly as cheap as th 1776.
But this is just my opinion
But this is just my opinion
Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it
4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·
Sorry.... you're right Joel I was thinking 92's. I suffered an 1835 once.Joel wrote:other way round, 90.5s are thicker than 94s but not by much, unless your thinking of 92s/1835, they make paper look thick
if your going to the effort of having case and heads bored 1916 makes more sense as the parts are similar price and machining is no different but u end up with more capacity
there are exceptions, i went 1776 over 1916 cos i knew it would end up force fed, i dont like how close 1916 cuts to the case savers depending on the size studs used
perfectly fine on an NA motor but theres a hmmmmmm factor when u add boost