Whats the best Oil

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Oct 2002, 1:29 pm

#7520

Whats the best brand and grade of oil to use in a Type 1 1600 aircooled engine.
Driving usually is a mix of low speed city and high speed freeway. (Vic Cruises)
Cars not used every day, maybe once a week. 🙂

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Oct 2002, 5:58 pm

#7547

Any good quality name-brand oil is fine. You don't have to stick to monograde 30w oil like in the old days, as modern technology has gone way beyond that. Any normal 20w-50 is perfect. I prefer Castrol myself but that's just me.

70AutoStik Insano Dub Head

730 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Oct 2002, 10:35 pm

#7611

Valvoline is good, and cheap. I've never tried synthetics, because too many people with a lot of experience recommend against it (usually flywheel seal leaks are reported, sometimes cracked heads.)

555bug WRX Bug Boy

1,123 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Oct 2002, 11:52 pm

#7642

motul and agip are really good if you can get hold of them.

KruizinKombi Seriously Obsessed Cyber Dubber

3,493 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Oct 2002, 11:59 pm

#7643

I use Mobil XHP in anything I think is worth the cost, and the cheapest stuff I can get in anything else!😉

Kruizin Kol

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 8:04 am

#7679

I use valvoline XLD 20W/50 premium with the gold label. It is cheap and always the latest SAE specification, it has to be good quality to keep up with the latest specs.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 8:04 am

#7680

Well for the last 25 or so years ive been using Target or Wollies home brand.....

I dont believe that it matters what brand name it is as long as you do your Maintanence regulary

I change my air cooled oil every 1500 miles

Never had a problem with any of my engines

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 10:05 am

#7696

Thanks all. We have a cruise next weekend and I need to do some maintenance to ensure no breakdown and no tears (mine from my loved beating me up if we have to push it somewere):thumb

The_Bronze. Minister of Volkswagenism

1,922 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 12:43 pm

#7715

I've researched this topic heaps of time before I even had a VDub and from what I read it dosen't really matter what oil is used provided it changed regulary. There were two main rules I did pick up though.

Rule 1 - It is highly recommended that you shouldn't exceed a 30 grade oil in viscosity apparently because the oil galleries are not bit enough to pump 30+ grade oil through them upon start up, especially on cold mornings. Therefore I have always used 5w-30 or 10w-30 grade oils and let the Dog idle for three minutes before moving off.

Rule 2 - If previously you haven't used a detergent oil then don't swap to one until after a rebuild. It will remove the scunge holding it all together and allow movement to occur in what was previously a well sealed mill.

For that reason they say stick to one brand of oil. I use what ever is available and is the cheapest but I do read the back closely and change oil every 3000 miles. I think the best grade for the dollar at the moment is 'SL' for $21 for 5 litres. Email me for the name as it new to Australia.

Bronze.

Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 2:50 pm

#7737

The Bronze said:

> Rule 1 - It is highly recommended that you shouldn't exceed a 30 grade oil in viscosity apparently because the oil galleries are not bit enough to pump 30+ grade oil through them upon start up, especially on cold mornings. Therefore I have always used 5w-30 or 10w-30 grade oils and let the Dog idle for three minutes before moving off.

My comments. A cold 20 grade oil is thinner (when cold) than a straight 30 oil. A HOT 50 weight oil is a LOT thinner than a COLD 30 ( a hot 50 is about 15 centistokes and a cold 30 is about 180 centistokes), so when thinking about the size of the oil galleries and flow rates, there is absolutely no reason NOT to use a 20w50 multigrade. The 20 number indicates a thin-when-cold oil for easy starts, and the 50 number indicates a thins-less-when-hot oil for good lubricating flim thickness in a hot engine.

VW started recommending multigrades in the late 70s (when the multigrades started getting good) - just about the time we stopped getting aircooled VWs in Aus.

> Rule 2 - If previously you haven't used a detergent oil then don't swap to one until after a rebuild. It will remove the scunge holding it all together and allow movement to occur in what was previously a well sealed mill.

What you say is quite correct Bronze, but these days ALL motor oils are high detergent oils. The only non-detergent oils readily available are two-stroke oils, (these are non-detergent because they are burned in the combustion chamber and you don't want incombustible detergents gumming up the spark plugs).

The VW engine should always use detergent oils - this means that all the crud is held in suspension in the oil so it can be flushed out at oil-change time. The detergent prevents the crud sticking to the insides of the engine.

Read any VW Owner's Manual and you'll see a recomendation to use "HD" oils. HD means High Detergent - not Heavy Duty as some folks think.

So don't worry about the detergent issue - just use any decent quality 20w50 (or straight 30 if you prefer) engine oil and change it at least every 3000 miles - the VW engine will be quite happy.

In fact I've been using Castrol XLA for many years - this is a 20w60 (yes 60) oil, which works well with any VW engine having a few thousand miles on it - I would not use it on a brand new rebuild, but it's great for keeping worn engines working a little longer (I've been driving VWs for over 30 years, and have clocked over 1/2 a million kilometers in them - I keep log books).

And re vw54's comments about using Target or Woolies oil - these oils are made by the major oil manufacturers, though they may use cheaper additives to keep the costs down. You may find that they loose viscosity (feel watery) after a few thousand miles, but if you change them more often (as vw54 does) then they will still work fine.

As a VW mechanic friend of mine once said - "I have NEVER seen a VW engine fail because of the brand of oil used - but I've seen a few fail because there wasn't ANY brand of oil in the sump!"

In other words, the VW is not critical when it comes to engine oil brands - just remember to keep it topped up as needed, and change it at least every 3000 miles - best insurance for long life you can give a VW engine.

Regards
Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.geocities.com/aussiebug1970/

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 6:26 pm

#7752

My 1600 seems to be manufacturing its own oil. After a long run (like a cruise) I will check the oil level the following day. The levels sitting about 5 mil below the level. I will check it a again in a week and it will be 5 mil or more above the level. ??
Does the oil cooler hold the oil for a long time after you turn the engine off? Is this were the oil could be coming from?

70AutoStik Insano Dub Head

730 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2002, 9:43 pm

#7783

aussiebug - some interesting stuff there. Many years ago, I was searching for a non-multigrade oil for an old Ford (which was a bit "loose" for MG oils,) and when I called Ampol, a freaky thing happened - they put me through to an actual technician. What this guy had to say was very interesting, including the fact that he recommended _any_ major brand of MG oil! He could only give me the name of an Ampol and one other "single" grade oil, however. The relevant point is that he suggested that the "no-name" oils are often produced by the lowest bidder, somewhere in asia (then bottled in Australia so the lable will look good.) I don't know if this is true of any of the local cheapies, but I'm a little wary of any oil that can't be traced back to it's source. One wonders what ever happened to the "recycled" oils (filtered, and additives put back in,) which were the only oils this guy strongly recommended against (amidst a big lecture on using a quality oil filter and changing the oil on time, or sooner in adverse conditions.)

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 21 Oct 2002, 8:58 pm

#8004

I tried but couldn't post a reply to that topic.... I have changed over to CASTROL Magnatec 10w-40 Engine Oil.. It seems to be an excellent oil with polymers to help reduce friction & wear, while the engine is warming up to operating temperature... It costs around $27 for 5 litres. One thing I would NEVER do.... is Use CHEAP Oil.... If 5 litres of Engine oil costs under $12.00 You are looking for trouble by using it... I really believe that You Do Get What You Pay for.
I did read somewhere, that Synthetic Engine Oil shouldn't be used until the engine is run in.... and anyway, it is a bit expensive to throw away after 3,000 miles or 5,000 kms.... :o😀

[Edited on 21-10-2002 by 68AutoBug]

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 21 Oct 2002, 11:30 pm

#8032

Grey 57 wrote:My 1600 seems to be manufacturing its own oil. After a long run (like a cruise) I will check the oil level the following day. The levels sitting about 5 mil below the level. I will check it a again in a week and it will be 5 mil or more above the level. ??
Does the oil cooler hold the oil for a long time after you turn the engine off? Is this were the oil could be coming from?

Grey57,

I'd be looking at the fuel pump if I were you, and having a good sniff of the oil on the dipstick.

The only way you can get MORE oil in the sump is for it to become contaminated with fuel - a leaking fuel pump diaphragm will sometimes do this.

You should always check the oil level the same way too - say in the morning before you start the engine. This ensures that all the oil that should be in the sump IS there. If you measure it in the mornings (cold) you'll get a different reading to just after switching off - hot oil expands, and some will still be clinging to the insides of the engine etc.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

Herbie Down Under VW club of Victoria

152 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 1:57 am

#8039

I use Mobil 1 in my engine. Its 5w rating is excelent and it is very thin. The reason I use it is it is great in my engine but also I use no choke on my 1640 and it takes a while to warm up. With the Mobil 1 its warm in a matter of mins. With the normal 20w stuff it takes a while longer. But for $50 for 5 litres it is expensive BUT its the only oil to EXCEED the American standards where all the others just meet the standards.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 7:27 am

#8041

Grey 57

" My 1600 seems to be manufacturing its own oil. "

Yes i would be checking the fuel pump. I had this happen to me on a type 3 and it ended up flushing the sludge out of the bearings and causing a knock.

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 8:32 am

#8049

I have seen wear index tests on magnetec and it performs pretty bad. Heaps of people have told me not to use it.

The oil I use is SJ/CF, which is a far superior grade to what is required for the VW, and it costs about $13 for 5litres.

I would recommend chosing a brand and sticking to it. By switching types of oils you are mixing them (not all oil is drained), so the additives from one oil will get in the other oil and you never can tell just what effect that will have. If you stick to the same brand you won't have that problem.

[Edited on 21-10-2002 by Baja Wes]

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 8:36 am

#8052

Yep
check it........ quickly

I have heard terrible stories about contamination and fires with this problem

Futue te ipsum!!!

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 2:33 pm

#8076

Wes,
Where did You read that Magnatec is NO Good...? I have only read the Castrol literature.. I used to use the XLD Super with the gold label....plus NULON in My last Lancer .. I think I have a couple of 5L containers in the shed. I also have 4 x 5L of Magnatec too. I have noticed in My 2001 1.8L 16V Lancer that the engine is much quieter with the Magnatec compared with the Valvoline the Mitsubishi Dealer uses. I would be greatful for some more info on Magnatec Wes... good or Bad.!!:o and Yes I also believe that Once You have selected an Oil ... Stick to it I was thinking of using a Shell oil a couple of Years ago, it was a semi synthetic oil - like mineral & synthetic oil mixed together.!!..:o As someone said... It depends on how much Your engine is worth to You.... After thinking about that.... Maybe We ALL should be using Mobil 1 !!😀 I Have always used an oil Additive in My Cars gearboxes-Diffs etc... I have been using NULON - Aussie made with Teflon- for about 10 years Now- with NO Problems..
:thumb

[Edited on 22-10-2002 by 68AutoBug]

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 22 Oct 2002, 3:47 pm

#8080

😀 I won't be able to sleep tonight Wes, unless You can tell Me that Castrol Magnatec IS Better Oil than Woolies Home Brand or Bi Lo oil...

and Yes, the bit about NOT using a high Detergent Oil is NO longer Valid... unless You have made a machine that takes the Detergent Out of the Oil!!😀

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Alita Learner Dubber

5 posts · joined Oct 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 2:32 am

#8282

Anyone here use Penrite? I use it for my Beetle - it rather expensive though.

Someone suggested using Repco but it was a little too watery for my Beetle and it didn't like it.

gearboxless Learner Dubber

6 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 9:14 am

#8289

I use Penrite HPR30 in my bug. There's no way it is too watery, I even remember someone saying it has the consistency of syrup, although they may have been talking about that superthick HPR50 stuff used dodgy brothers car yards for cars with 'well-worn' tolerances.

I used to use K-Mart's Motorpro KMX $13 jobby, and the pressure seems to be better with the Penrite (same 20-50), however this thread coupled with the price of the Penrite may force me back to the KMX. If you want to stick with Penrite though, try to buy a 20L drum when Super Cheap has one of those 10-15% off days on long W/Es and it works out significantly cheaper.

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 12:01 pm

#8305

I have seen a wear index test performed (by QUT) on various big brand oils and magnetic didn't fair too well at all. I will try to get a copy.

If the engine sounds quieter it probably just means the oil is thicker.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 12:11 pm

#8306

Ended up using Valvoline XLD Plus 20/50. Looked at the SJ/CF but decided that a thin oil may not be the best for an engine of unknown mileage. Don't too many heating probs in Melb.
Oils must be a lot cheaper outside of Vic, the Repco price for SJ/CF was $29.95!!!:o

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 12:14 pm

#8308

here's something funny regarding oil additives being crap

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/9607/slick.htm

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 12:22 pm

#8309

and the engine oil bible for those bored people.

http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2002, 12:58 pm

#8319

Interesting stuff long read tho. Did'nt realise about petrol and the dangers of hydro carbons passing into the blood stream. Was servicing the oval yesterday and washing parts in petrol and got a fiar bit on my hands as you do. Woke up this morning with what can only be described as a hangover headache. Will be using rubber gloves in the future I think🙁

70AutoStik Insano Dub Head

730 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 25 Oct 2002, 12:06 am

#8445

Hey, good article - but why didn't they take action many years ago?

Also, I have a bit of a problem with the second article - it only recommends oils for use at ambient temperatures up to 40C, it's gotten well above that every day for the last week or two! (and my boss' wife has driven her '70 every day and it sounds just fine to me, even when it was 47...)

[Edited on 24-10-2002 by 70AutoStik]