Hi all, I have a 77 bay window dual cab, stock aside from extractors, hotdog and new electronic igniton.
It's recently been misfiring, running rough, backfiring etc. and down on power. I had a look and found the earth wire inside the dissy was floating around and assumed that was the problem. I took it to a mechanic along with a new electronic ignition I'd just bought and got him to fix the earth and fit the ignition. He had it running great until I tried to drive it away and found it was worse than when i'd dropped it off. For some reason, it won't hold the timing once it's set. He told me there was some play in the dissy shaft and it was a little worn but shouldn't this be ok now that the points are gone? He had it today too and can still only find the dissy as a small problem although the play in it is too minor for both of us to believe that's what's causing it to play up. It had a full service just before xmas with new dissy cap, leads, plugs etc and has had bugger all kms put on since then. I don't really want to spend the money on a new dissy if it's not needed. Any help or advice would be appreciated, it's now supposed to be my daily driver so I need it sorted.
cheers, Scotty
Scotty
Do you have a timing light and do you know how to time? Mark the timing mark on the pulley with some white paint, remove the vacuum advance and then check base timing, then rev it up and hold it at say 1500 rpm and watch the timing mark, then rev it to 2500 rpm and again watch the timing mark, and lastly rev it to 3000 rpm and again watch the timing mark. Each time you check the timing mark it should change but as you hold the revs constant the timing mark shouldn't move. Let us know if it moves. Play in the dissy is in every old car, but it doesn't make un-drivable. Did it start playing up when you fitted the electronic ignition, if it did, swap the two wires over.
Hi
If it doesn't want to go when in gear etc... ie..be driven
even though it revs when being tuned etc...
its usually the accelerator pump not working...
it can be blocked... or have a hole in the rubber diaphram etc
I have 3 carbies that work perfectly in the car in the garage
but can';t drive the car out the driveway.... lol
old fuel has blocked the ball valve which can't be cleaned...
because they were sitting for a year or more...
You may just have a bit of dirt in the accelerator pump..
or a hole in the diaphram...
a good VW mechanic should be able to see this...
electronic ignitions... most have diodes in them...
reverse the voltage and they usually don't work.......
You don't go reversing wires with electronic ignitions etc unless You have plenty of cash...
You also don't need to rev Your engine to 3000rpm... etc..
the timing light etc would pick up any variance... in the timing
and it shouldn't be enough to detune Your ignition!!!!
LEE
Is He a VW mechanic??? a normal mechanic will just NOT do.
I've seen what some have done... yikes... no idea...
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I'm pretty sure it's not a fuel problem, it just doesn't explain why the timing can be set but won't hold. The mechanic isn't a vw guy but he has been around a while and worked on a lot of old cars so he knows his stuff. I've only just moved to a new town and there aren't any vw specialists in the area unfortunately.
I haven't got access to a timing light right now and the wires on the new ignition are around the right way so it's not that. It was playing up before the new ignition went on but it's a lot worse now than it was. I guess there's a slim chance the ignition is faulty but there's plenty of spark there and that doesn't explain why it was running bad before.
Is it possible for the dissy drive inside the engine to bugger up and allow the dissy to move around too much?
Thanks for your help fellas, any other ideas?
77dual wrote:I'm pretty sure it's not a fuel problem, it just doesn't explain why the timing can be set but won't hold. The mechanic isn't a vw guy but he has been around a while and worked on a lot of old cars so he knows his stuff. I've only just moved to a new town and there aren't any vw specialists in the area unfortunately.
I haven't got access to a timing light right now and the wires on the new ignition are around the right way so it's not that. It was playing up before the new ignition went on but it's a lot worse now than it was. I guess there's a slim chance the ignition is faulty but there's plenty of spark there and that doesn't explain why it was running bad before.
Is it possible for the dissy drive inside the engine to bugger up and allow the dissy to move around too much?
Thanks for your help fellas, any other ideas?
Hi
I think the dizzy drive is usually OK...
have You pulled the dizzy out of the engine??
the drive dog is held in with a small roll pin...
if this sheared off?? unusual??
I don't think the engine would start...
Maybe the advance in the dizzy isn't working???
if the earth braid is too tight??? or an incorrect screw used..
the advance couldn't advance properly..
if the engine starts and idles OK...
it MUST be the advance in the dizzy...
NOT working OR
maybe working intermittently??
have all the high tension leads been checked??
including the one going to the coil..??
with a multimeter??
and inside the dizzy cap wiped out with alcohol or WD40 etc..
OR the rotor inside the dizzy.. isn't located properly...
and is moving about.... this can happen...
and would upset the timing something terrible...
but would show up with a xenon timing light...
Points- spark plugs , HT leads, dizzy cap, rotor etc should all be replaced ... ... at regular intervals..
Your engine may not have the correct spark plug leads, or dizzy cap, or rotor for your engine...
thats why a VW mechanic can just look and tell you whats NOT right... before he starts the engine....
best of luck
LEE
PS: but when My Wife told a Mechanic in Sydney
[who had a VW sign up] [ was about a friends corolla]
that I had an automatic beetle.... He told her to tell Me to get rid of it they are nothing but trouble.....
Lee- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I know that Mitsubishi dissy caps and rotors and maybe points will fit onto most VW distributors...
[they were made by Bosch in Australia]
cheers
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Hi
another thought....
VW distributors have a spring between the shaft and drive shaft
the distributor has to be pushed down on top of the spring..
so the drive tang can't move...
LEE
[still trying]
as You can see, there are many things that a VW Mechanic would know.... and I'm no mechanic... LEE
just what I've learnt over the years... since 1962... lol
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
take it to a real vw machanic even a forum member most ordinary mavhanics don't know much about vw's
👍👍😂🙅🥷😬🤓
greedy53 wrote:take it to a real vw mechanic even a forum member
most ordinary mechanics don't know much about vw's
Believe Me... too
they don't have a clue...
there are too many variables in a VW engine for a NON VW person to know about....
EXPERIENCE IS THE NAME OF THE GAME...
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
77dual wrote:I'm pretty sure it's not a fuel problem, it just doesn't explain why the timing can be set but won't hold. The mechanic isn't a vw guy but he has been around a while and worked on a lot of old cars so he knows his stuff. I've only just moved to a new town and there aren't any vw specialists in the area unfortunately.
I haven't got access to a timing light right now and the wires on the new ignition are around the right way so it's not that. It was playing up before the new ignition went on but it's a lot worse now than it was. I guess there's a slim chance the ignition is faulty but there's plenty of spark there and that doesn't explain why it was running bad before.
Is it possible for the dissy drive inside the engine to bugger up and allow the dissy to move around too much?
Thanks for your help fellas, any other ideas?
You need to beg, borrow or steal a timing light (or buy one?) to verify what is going on here. If the timing is changing the only things I can think of are that the advance mechanisms are sticking or the distributor body is not clamped properly.
Hi
A distributor can be dismantled and the problem found...
but NOT when paying for a Mechanic to do it...
who hasn't done one before... [BOSCH]
cheaper to get a new one..
a spring could have broken in the distributor...
or the advance seized up....
or something cracked, broken??
that broken earth braid in the dizzy means this IS an old dizzy.
I've never seen a broken one...
see if anyone on Here can help You with a Dizzy....
that is known to work...
the ignition timing doesn't normally vary to a great degree...
if at all...
if the dizzy moves, [not screwed down,] it won't move back... lol
it has to be inside the distributor...???
dizzy cam lobes OK..?? new points sitting correctly??
Condensor? Rotor sitting correctly?? Cap sitting OK??
nothing cracked or broken??
cheers
LEE
68AutoBug wrote:Hi
Maybe the advance in the dizzy isn't working???
if the earth braid is too tight???
or an incorrect screw used.. that's all it takes...
3mm too long..
and the advance couldn't advance properly..
if the engine starts and idles OK...
it MUST be the advance in the dizzy...
NOT working OR
maybe working intermittently??.
OR the rotor inside the dizzy.. isn't located properly...
and is moving about.... this can happen...
and would upset the timing something terrible...
but would show up with a xenon timing light...
Your engine may not have the dizzy cap, points, or rotor for your distributor...
that's why a VW mechanic can just look and tell you whats NOT right... before he starts the engine....
best of luck
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I spoke to my vw mechanic today and he said it could possibly be a number of things, but not likely the play in the dissy, more likely it's vacuum advance not working correctly etc.
I'm going to either buy a timing light and see if I can put the old points and condensor back in and get it running better, then I could at least drive it back to canberra on the weekend to my mechanic as I have to go anyway. Or just get hold of a new/ 2nd hand dissy and try that.
What's shitting me is that it was running far better before I took it in to get fixed, i'm not blaming this mechanic because it could just as likely be something that was buggered in the dissy anyway and happened to break while he had it apart.
thanks for the advice fellas, i'll get it sorted eventually 🤪
YES
the vacuum advance will do it...
no advance advance and the timing will be too far out for the engine..
If it has Vacuum advance.... ONLY
Yes You are in trouble...
If You had an SVDA - single vacuum but Dual advance - also mechanical.. would keep you going...
a 009 would get you home ... no vacuum needed...
all mechanical.... many people run them... Me at the moment.
You can also buy new vacuum cans...
remember, one wrong screw in the distributor will STOP Your
dissy from advancing... happened to Me..
Old points and condensor ?? buy a points file under $2 and clean the points..
LEE
PS: Maybe someone could loan you a 009 till You get home...
77dual wrote:I spoke to my vw mechanic today and he said it could possibly be a number of things, but not likely the play in the dissy, more likely it's vacuum advance not working correctly etc.
I'm going to either buy a timing light and see if I can put the old points and condensor back in and get it running better, then I could at least drive it back to canberra on the weekend to my mechanic as I have to go anyway. Or just get hold of a new/ 2nd hand dissy and try that.
What's shitting me is that it was running far better before I took it in to get fixed, i'm not blaming this mechanic because it could just as likely be something that was buggered in the dissy anyway and happened to break while he had it apart.
thanks for the advice fellas, i'll get it sorted eventually 🤪
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Why couldn't You break down in Scone...???
would have been fun finding the problem,....lol
and fixing it...
best of luck
LEE
77dual wrote:I spoke to my vw mechanic today and he said it could possibly be a number of things, but not likely the play in the dissy, more likely it's vacuum advance not working correctly etc.
I'm going to either buy a timing light and see if I can put the old points and condensor back in and get it running better, then I could at least drive it back to canberra on the weekend to my mechanic as I have to go anyway. Or just get hold of a new/ 2nd hand dissy and try that.
What's shitting me is that it was running far better before I took it in to get fixed, i'm not blaming this mechanic because it could just as likely be something that was buggered in the dissy anyway and happened to break while he had it apart.
thanks for the advice fellas, i'll get it sorted eventually 🤪
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
check you ignition coil. borrow someone's that is good and just try it. you never know. Is your coil the right resistance for the elec ignition?
Carter wrote:check you ignition coil. borrow someone's that is good and just try it. you never know. Is your coil the right resistance for the elec ignition?
YES...
I had to change MY Coil for the electronic ignition...
The GT40 Bosch ones will usually burn them out of a while..
a standard coil is usually OK...
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I think the coil is the standard one, it's not a GT40 anyway. The new ignition is designed to work with the standard coil and i'm pretty sure the mechanic tested it.
I've also been told to pull off the rotor button and lubricate the wick inside the dissy with a little machine oil, worth a try and i'll check the vacuum advance later today if it stops bloody raining!
if your in bowral just roll down the hill to wollongong ,couple of vw mechanics here or george from classic had 009's for $65. Or i could lend you a dizzy to try.
Sometimes with the electronic conversions in vacuum dizzy's you have to file down the rotor button as it hits on the carbon in the cap and the locater in the rotor button does not make a firm fit as it sits a bit higher on the shaft from the spacer you use .
easy solution go back to points set the gap, switch out the coil and plug the vacuum line and set total advance to 28-30 deg . this may give you a starting point for trouble shooting.
Klaus wrote:Sometimes with the electronic conversions in vacuum dizzy's you have to file down the rotor button as it hits on the carbon in the cap and the locater in the rotor button does not make a firm fit as it sits a bit higher on the shaft from the spacer you use .
easy solution go back to points set the gap, switch out the coil and plug the vacuum line and set total advance to 28-30 deg . this may give you a starting point for trouble shooting.
Very interesting about the rotor button not sitting correctly.
I haven't fitted My Pertronix into My new SVDA dizzy as yet..
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Thanks Klaus, that is a good tip about the rotor button.
I've bought a brand new dissy, an exact repro of the original which is going in on tuesday, I did a bit of research on 009's but the engine's stock and most people recommended a stock dissy would work better. If the problem persists I'll be down to Wollongong to sort it out, who do you think I should talk to there?
thanks, Scotty
I'll post up again once/if it gets sorted, might help someone else in the future
wayne penrose is very helpful and should be able to fix the problem , another problem could be your brake booster has got a leak and causing advance issues with dizzy .
You can always just suck on the bit of pipe connec
ted to vacuum canister to test it too.
It's finally fixed 🤪
The new dissy fixed the timing problem, no more moving around- the timing stays set where it's supposed to be. Still running the points for now but will try the electronic ignition again at a later date.
Once the timing prob was fixed it became apparent that there was a carby problem as well, carbs came off and were cleaned out. This was meant to have been done at the last service, there was a bit of crap in them and also a small amount of water in the RHS one which is strange, but nothing but fuel in the filter itself. The RHS intake manifold was also a little bit loose which could explain the backfiring, the engine was pulled out for the new gearbox before xmas and apparently given a good check so maybe the bolts worked themselves loose since then, maybe not.
I was told by the vw guys that serviced it before that the backfiring was due to the timing being out but they seemed to have missed a number of things.
Anyway I'm back driving my ute and happy 🙂
I just love a happy ending... lol
LEE
Text
77dual wrote:It's finally fixed 🤪
The new dissy fixed the timing problem, no more moving around- the timing stays set where it's supposed to be. Still running the points for now but will try the electronic ignition again at a later date.
Once the timing prob was fixed it became apparent that there was a carby problem as well, carbs came off and were cleaned out. This was meant to have been done at the last service, there was a bit of crap in them and also a small amount of water in the RHS one which is strange, but nothing but fuel in the filter itself. The RHS intake manifold was also a little bit loose which could explain the backfiring, the engine was pulled out for the new gearbox before xmas and apparently given a good check so maybe the bolts worked themselves loose since then, maybe not.
I was told by the vw guys that serviced it before that the backfiring was due to the timing being out but they seemed to have missed a number of things.
Anyway I'm back driving my ute and happy 🙂
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I once heard that 90% of ignition problems are fuel problems.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
So after driving it today up a hill I normally travel up, it seems a bit down on power. I think it might have something to do with the fuel pressure regulator (i'm running an electric fuel pump) not giving constant, even pressure. The mechanic has said he doesn't use that particular brand/type anymore after too many problems so it looks like i'll have to chase up a decent one or play around with the settings on this one.
Just when I thought it was all fixed....
