Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber
366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·
Twin plug heads
Sides Veteran Volks Folk
2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·
Yeah, you know I actually haven't yet - been a bit slack in that regard !!!johny rotten wrote:Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
Gotten a few questions on things like that tho, so might dig up some pics and put up a thread on the things I've done that are a bit different. Bit late for a "build thread" really, since the Jezebel's been together and busily competing for over 3 years now...
😉
Oh and cheers for comments Damo & Marcus... will definitely share how things turn out...
👍
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Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
JVLRacing Custom Title Time!
1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·
people will be interested wat u have done with the car....spill the beens 😎Sides wrote:Yeah, you know I actually haven't yet - been a bit slack in that regard !!!johny rotten wrote:Dave
have you posted any pics of your dry sump system ?
its a topic thats always interested me
Gotten a few questions on things like that tho, so might dig up some pics and put up a thread on the things I've done that are a bit different. Bit late for a "build thread" really, since the Jezebel's been together and busily competing for over 3 years now...
😉
Oh and cheers for comments Damo & Marcus... will definitely share how things turn out...
👍
Super1302 Officially Full-On Dubber
361 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·
gee i guess the engineers at porsche and the like dont know much about this subject do they, hmmm, thats why they get paid the dollars and drive these nice mobiles with twin sparks, hmmm they must be bright sparks too..........
cheerio
cheerio
SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen
868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·
Have you ever looked in a 911 combustion chamber? Bit different to a vw.....
reub VWRX is gone...
2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Very much different to a VW head...
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/2a.html
Single plug combustion pattern
Twin plug combustion pattern
I wonder if it would be more effective on some of the old Berg semi hemi heads?
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/2a.html
Single plug combustion pattern
Twin plug combustion pattern
I wonder if it would be more effective on some of the old Berg semi hemi heads?
Reub
SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen
868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·
And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber
169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·
GT3 heads run a single plug in the centre of the chamber. They make OK power.
It is a four valve head though.
It is a four valve head though.
SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen
868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·
Thats what I thought, nice tight combustion chamber means no need for a second plug.
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Whats your point ?SuperOwen wrote:And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
does it matter what shape the combustion chamber is if there are two flame fronts igniting from the centre (ish) of the chamber?
if the squish is good it will ignite yeah?
instead of one front travelling accross the area there are two fronts traveling outwards (as well as the small distance between the 2 ignition points)
SO does the poofteenth of a difference in ignition/burn completion count for better efficiency.............🤪
if the squish is good it will ignite yeah?
instead of one front travelling accross the area there are two fronts traveling outwards (as well as the small distance between the 2 ignition points)
SO does the poofteenth of a difference in ignition/burn completion count for better efficiency.............🤪
55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber
169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·
The porsche twin plug engines basically had a hemispherical head, two large valves forcing the plug to one side (like a VW head but the porsche has a symetrical chamber rather than a wedge).
I think the clincher is they ran dome or tent topped pistons, so without the twin plug set up they effectively would only ignite half the mixture, making them innefficient, so they went twin plugged to increase efficiencies. Basically it all works with that chamber and piston design.
mopar hemi chamber - new one !!
I think the clincher is they ran dome or tent topped pistons, so without the twin plug set up they effectively would only ignite half the mixture, making them innefficient, so they went twin plugged to increase efficiencies. Basically it all works with that chamber and piston design.
mopar hemi chamber - new one !!
ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell
3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·
everybody knows that you need bigger valves or more valves and a high energy spark, 😂🤪😂
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲
Super1302 Officially Full-On Dubber
361 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·
better spark, better burn, gases all burnt better expansion, better economy, more tq and hp.😎SuperOwen wrote:Thats what I thought, nice tight combustion chamber means no need for a second plug.
yeah
Super1302 Officially Full-On Dubber
361 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·
i know if i had the money i know which motor i would choose.
coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard
661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·
If your keen i'll check with my mate he has a dyno at his house down at logan village,Frosty and my self were gonna have a little tuning day down the track I'm sure he wouldn't mind.Other wise when i get the 2332 back togeather I'll see where u are at.Sides wrote:btw I see that no-one's taken up the free dyno offer... wonder if there's any VW friendly types in Bris who'd donate time on their dyno ???
SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen
868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·
Point is twin plugs aren't required with an efficient chamber design, mind you theres no comparison between a new porsche and an old vw so no point afterall!!Craig Torrens wrote:Whats your point ?SuperOwen wrote:And on another thought have porsche used twin plugs since they went 4 valve watercooled?
fish26 Fahrvergnugen
903 posts · joined Jul 2007 ·
uuhmmm no, most of the time if the ports are left alone the large valve just gets in the way of the incoming mixture, but yes, more valves depending on the chamber shape, piston top, engine configuration,ie overhead cam, together with direct fire ignition for a more efficient burn.ian.mezz wrote:everybody knows that you need bigger valves or more valves and a high energy spark, 😂🤪😂
Hemi, symmetrical chamber would be a good candidate for twin spark in a vw head, I would assume hemi is the chamber choice for Stan?
There are a lot of chamber shapes that work with the type 1 head for the specific purpose of their uses combined with cam selection. "D", kidney, oval, wedge, etc.
There are also head tweeks that can be applied ie, twin spark, tight deck, sunken valve, groove, etc.
I am currently messing around with a certain head, cam, ignition combo that I hope to dyno back to back with a stock valve head on a fairly racy 1776.
I will not knock the twin spark, because I know it works in certain applications, however I will not say its better than a well set up single spark head, only way to know if its at all better, is back to back figures which we don't seem to be seeing from anybody and this thread is absolutely USELESS without that.
I hope its not friggin pride getting in the way.
I think Porsche engineers know what they are talking about.
bitten by the bug..........several times
azza81 Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Aug 2009 ·
i had a twin ignition base motor in my manx
awesome up the beach extra touqe low in the revs
and if you hit water it didnt miss
you had to drown a lot of plugs for that to happen
awesome up the beach extra touqe low in the revs
and if you hit water it didnt miss
you had to drown a lot of plugs for that to happen
spdterence Seriously Crusin Dubber
143 posts · joined May 2008 ·
Testing this should be really simple though no? Just do a dyno run and then take off the bottom set of leads and run again. I assume that is how it would be done.
From the engineering I know this is a sound concept - but would still like to see if it produced any discernable difference.
On a slightly different angle - can a dyno measure how quickly a motor responds to a new fuel load? Bear with me - say if you are pulling out of a corner and you dump a heavy fuel load into the cylinder - how the combustion chamber copes with that large amount of fuel ie - if it can ignite the fuel load quickly and effeciently - then this would effect driveability?
Whereas - just plonking a motor on a dyno and letting it build up revs in a moderated way doesn't reflect how a car is driven in reality to my way of thinking.
Just a thought. Terry
From the engineering I know this is a sound concept - but would still like to see if it produced any discernable difference.
On a slightly different angle - can a dyno measure how quickly a motor responds to a new fuel load? Bear with me - say if you are pulling out of a corner and you dump a heavy fuel load into the cylinder - how the combustion chamber copes with that large amount of fuel ie - if it can ignite the fuel load quickly and effeciently - then this would effect driveability?
Whereas - just plonking a motor on a dyno and letting it build up revs in a moderated way doesn't reflect how a car is driven in reality to my way of thinking.
Just a thought. Terry
Smile - It confuses people😀
Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
Tomorrow
Cooookies
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Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
Tomorrow
Cooookies
Better brakes
westi what the
1,610 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·
simply taking leads of sound's good .if it was the same combo.but knowing stan.
i dare say that a twin plug set up compared to a single plug set up would more than likely have a diferent cam.
beause there is know point burning more fuel if there ain't any extra in there.
bigger spark need's more fuel which a smaller cam might not allow.
just thowing it out there,but there will be some truth to the madness.😵💫
there would be no point putting a kick arse ignition on a car if you don't have any fuel to burn.
i dare say that a twin plug set up compared to a single plug set up would more than likely have a diferent cam.
beause there is know point burning more fuel if there ain't any extra in there.
bigger spark need's more fuel which a smaller cam might not allow.
just thowing it out there,but there will be some truth to the madness.😵💫
there would be no point putting a kick arse ignition on a car if you don't have any fuel to burn.
down sharon.
Dak-A-Tak Volksie Pete
1,381 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Twin Plugs , Nitro fuel now , Westi !