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Brake Drums - a word of warning! Greg Mackie

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HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#780754
No, but I felt it!
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#780755
HappyDaze wrote:No, but I felt it!
No argument here.

Glad your still with us Greg, the car is a mess, you were very lucky. I bet you're a bit stiff today.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#780759
I feel fine thanks Matt - apart from a couple of sore spots. OK for an old bloke. That 6 point quality harness was good value, although I would rather have not had to rely on that.

Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#780761
johny rotten wrote:That drum has broken during the rollover from side impact

not prior too

the axle is very bent

sorry if u disagree
Hi

Greg is a very experienced driver and has done 100s of laps of this track, he is the one person that would know if a mechanical fault preceded the roll over.

So what makes you so sure the axle is bent? You could make a fortune in industry looking at photos and diagnosing faults.

Its a swing axle car and has just been manhandled onto a trailer, of course the axle will settle at an odd angle

Steve

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#780762
Anyone have video ?

That corner seems to always have rollovers, I've seen 5 or 6 cars go over there !


vdubrod Casual Dubber

49 posts · joined Oct 2008 ·

#780787
Hi Greg it was good to see you at the VW Nationals yesterday after your adventure at Wakefield park I didn't see the accident at all because I was flagging at turn ten the last corner before the straight and as I said to you on Sunday you were really pushing that little thing onto the main straight you would of been one of the fastest cars through that corner if not the fastest and I know on the run where you rolled your car you were coming into ten very very fast and on your 1st and 2nd laps the wheels were braking loose and smoking the tyres and on the 3rd lap you were really on the limit and you found it where you spun but just as quick you smoked the tyres and you were off but then I had the call over the two way red flag red flag looked around and seen you get out of the car (turn 10 is along way from where you rolled over) and I said to my offside it greg silly bugger spun off again little did I know that you had rolled the thing in spectacular way and when you showed me the passenger door on Sunday I realised then how very lucky you were. And just to say in Greg's favor I have seen the man drive at very close range and if he said it is not driver error I am a believer.
Greg do you give racing driving lesson I am about to venture into Super Sprinting and I wont to come Salt Racing I have confidence in your driving ability.

Jeff Dunn Club Vee Dub

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#780796
Very sorry to see those pics of your car Greg, but heaps happy to hear your okay.

Cheers Col

westi what the

1,610 posts · joined Aug 2005 ·

#780816
i hope you bought a lottery ticket after that one,lady luck was obviously on your side.
bad news about the car. great new's to hear you walked away.
down sharon.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#780858
I understand that the Formular VEE guys have been seeing a similar problem

they apparently have designed a outer cover to help hold the drums together
( would be good to get some input for the VEE guys and how many times this has happened )

Greg remmeber what Boris and i said to you seperatly before the race we both agreed good S/Hand drums would have been better to be used

Sorry it had to destroy the car and we are all glad you able to tell the story

great advert for your door pillar center brace what gauge is that material ???

what sort of testing are you haveing done to the drum i hope there a similar thickness to the origionals
most probaly the material will vary
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#780866
So where are the new drums manufactured ?

Can you still buy german ones or are they all aftermarket suppliers now ?


HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#780872
vw54 wrote:I understand that the Formular VEE guys have been seeing a similar problem

they apparently have designed a outer cover to help hold the drums together
( would be good to get some input for the VEE guys and how many times this has happened )

Greg remmeber what Boris and i said to you seperatly before the race we both agreed good S/Hand drums would have been better to be used

Sorry it had to destroy the car and we are all glad you able to tell the story

great advert for your door pillar center brace what gauge is that material ???

what sort of testing are you haveing done to the drum i hope there a similar thickness to the origionals
most probaly the material will vary
Would be interesting to hear of other drum failures.

You did mention your preference to the original drums, but if YOU remember, it was Sunday, not Saturday.

The centre brace is 1.6 pressed steel.

Could be a while before I have any test results, in the meantime I don't think we need to 'panic'. I know that I was working those drums far harder than they were designed for. 'Normal' use would probably not be a problem. What we need is constructive, factual feedback here, so we can all be aware of the limitations of the stuff that we put on our (special) cars.

Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

Water Boy Seriously Crusin Dubber

117 posts · joined Jul 2007 ·

#780891
Wow. Bad luck and im glad you are ok.

At mentioned before the Formula Vee's run a plate to strengthen the drum.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#780912
Greg

I remember discussing the drums with you on Saturday in the pits right after u told me you got new ones
and had fitted the alloy cooling fins as per your origionals you even mentioned the brand

I wonder who we can contact re the Formular Vee Failures
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#780923
try craig from vwma, he is in the vee scene now

johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber

366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#780966
not many 1200 / drum brake vees running any more

most are 1600cc disc brakes etc now

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#780978
John Alder is doing a job for me next week, he may know...I'll get his angle as his vee's are running up there with the best of em.

I also saw a drum failure late last year (or early this year), but it was an aftermarket drum with a jap 6 stud off road pattern from a local supplier. Similar break although it was more obviously a thin zone near the machined stud pattern.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#781465
Hi

Something that I don't think has been brought up, VW went to burst proof door locks in Australia with the introduction of the 1500 Beetle.

If the doors had stayed shut on Greg's car during the rollover it may have stayed in better shape, still would have been buggered but the roof would maybe not have collapsed as much as it did with a door still in the opening.

Steve

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#781474
i think it was in one of the other threads someone mentioned how bad 6 volt doors are for flying open in accidents.
my best mate and his sister rolled in her 64 and naturally both doors flew open and the windscreen pillars gave out
the latches are such a bad design when you look closely

Richard holzl has the right idea using mexican doors which have 6 volt windows but the later bear claw type latch

Steve, talk about syncroncity, did you see only yesterday someone posted that classic nurburgring vid on GL with all the vws rolling on that corner.
theres a shot in that where a guy is ejected out of his early bug cos the door flies open and it has no seatbelts

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#781482
Joel wrote:Richard holzl has the right idea using mexican doors which have 6 volt windows but the later bear claw type latch
That's actually VW's idea, the shells are available new like that.


1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#781485
Hi

That you tube video is scary stuff

Craig of course its VW idea, Joel was saying that Richard retro fitted Mexican doors to early bugs, the Steve MvMullan/ Alex Hozl Oval has them.

Steve

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#781495
oh I was refering to the shells you can buy from Fermans, the mexican/brazilian ones that came like that from the factory.


matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#781520
Like this one

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Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#781523
How many VWs were destroyed in that YouTube video?

I've always been worried about my beetle turning into a ball.

Sheeesh.
esratrams

bat69 There is no status

791 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#781535
1303Steve wrote:If the doors had stayed shut on Greg's car during the rollover it may have stayed in better shape, still would have been buggered but the roof would maybe not have collapsed as much as it did with a door still in the opening.
Steve
The doors would have done SFA in stopping the roof of the car from caving in. The only thing that would stop that would be a properly designed and installed roll cage. Even with one, the impact on the roof still would have been extensive.
White Knuckle Racing Team [/i]
"Drive it like dirt"

bat69 There is no status

791 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#781540
fullnoise wrote:How many VWs were destroyed in that YouTube video?

I've always been worried about my beetle turning into a ball.

Sheeesh.
Thats what motor sport is all about... You cant worry to much about crashing when your driving your car at 10 tenths. Other wise you will throw it off into the trees or armco.
White Knuckle Racing Team [/i]
"Drive it like dirt"

cb john Wolfsburg Wizard

470 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·

#781556
vw54 wrote:Greg

I remember discussing the drums with you on Saturday in the pits right after u told me you got new ones
and had fitted the alloy cooling fins as per your origionals you even mentioned the brand

I wonder who we can contact re the Formular Vee Failures
Drum failures on early F Vees were a chronic problem...
The drums out of 1200 cars did not have this problem, the brakages started to appear with usage of 1300 drums...
( the same shape as Greg's drum )
To prevent this to happen, Frank Kleinig designed the device, which is spun 2.0 mm steel, kind of a top hat which bolts on the drum by axle nut and wheel nuts..
If the drum brakes, it still keeps the wheel in the position ( kind of )..
I think that I have a pair in my shop , will try to take some pictures..

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#781558
bat69 wrote:The doors would have done SFA in stopping the roof of the car from caving in. The only thing that would stop that would be a properly designed and installed roll cage. Even with one, the impact on the roof still would have been extensive.
Hi

I don't agree but I'm not going to crash a car to prove my point.

This super bug had huge hit in the front, what do you think would have happened if the doors had flown open.

Steve

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Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#781561
fullnoise wrote:How many VWs were destroyed in that YouTube video?

I've always been worried about my beetle turning into a ball.

Sheeesh.
too many
I cringe when i see that bug cabrio fly through,
if it had rolled like the others thats 4 people probably not wearing seatbelts
the vid is shot in 1970 so that cab was brand new
way to total a brand new car if it got ugly liek the others

colonel mustard Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,829 posts · joined Feb 2009 ·

#781568
i always cringe at that purple bug... completely owned in the front. but you are right steve... the doors saved the driver, in a sense. the cage is still bent at the top of the a pillars, and given enough force where the cage bolts/welds to the floor at the front, it would still be crushed. I dont remember the speed that purple super was going, but double it and the driver would be dead.