I hear that they are better but I wouldn't know for sure. I am new to performance stuff and building vw motors in general.
All I know is every engine needs its own specific spark map and electronic programmable timing is the way to go. The 009 was a temporary fix during the 60's when there was no alternative
because all other vw dizzy ran on vacuum advance where it proved a problem on HP motors with incompatible vacuum signal or no vacuum ports at all.
from then it become custom to assume 009 was good, also readily available and cheap(^ 99 buks as mentioned).
I think they were developed as a dizzy for industrial application with constant high rpm (the reason has no vacuum can). ie. factory machines, compressors and generators.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
vlad01 wrote:yeah they are only suppose to have one. 009 are really crap dizzys, hence why vw never ever used them on any production vw.
really i prefer them over the stock one in my bug but then again i hate the 34 pict with a passion and have seen documents from at the time they came out about the flat spot and problems with them.
I've got an original steel body german 009 on my 1776 its got 2 springs but the box full of cast body brazillian 009 POS I have all only have 1 spring.
Is that the 009 that was on it when you bought it?
if so its one of my old ones
The drive cog gave out on the original one arvo
heres a bit of history for you and a flashback for Robo 😂
The day it happened
That VW Resource site is great. There's heaps of good info there. Which is sort of how I came to have my distributor out in the first place.
I've been trying to set the timing. The problem is, if I set the advance to 30 deg BTDC at 3k RPM I can't get the idle below 1200 RPM. The idle also cycles - down to 800 RPM then back to 1200 RPM.
Joel, thanks for the background. Do you have any insights into the EMPI 32/36 carburettor? I suspect this isn't helping my cause either.
If I were to ditch the 009, what should I go with? SVDA?
If you set your total timing to 30 degrees and you are having idling issues, it aint the timing. Well it could be, if the spring isnt holding your weights properly then it could be advancing and retarding itself do to loose spring. That dissy is old and copuld do with a reco or replacement, if you have a welder, tack the advance mechanism to the spring mechanism and then re install and set your timing as you have previously and see what happens. All you are doing that way is having all your advance on straight away, wont hurt anything.
btc-er wrote:Joel, thanks for the background. Do you have any insights into the EMPI 32/36 carburettor? I suspect this isn't helping my cause either.
If I were to ditch the 009, what should I go with? SVDA?
the SVDA will definately help but the main problem was that progressive carb was never jetted to suit the engine, just fitted out of the the box, so it always had run on issues.
Thats the main reason too that you cant get the idle low enough, those carbs are a pain to jet right
Also check for vacuum leaks too, they're probably the source of your bouncy idle
if you have a welder, tack the advance mechanism to the spring mechanism and then re install and set your timing as you have previously and see what happens. All you are doing that way is having all your advance on straight away, wont hurt anything.
WON"T HURT ANYTHING....what the!
Thats the second time you've suggested to lock your timing and run 30* all the time !!!
Not my idea of engine longevety.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Joel wrote:the SVDA will definately help but the main problem was that progressive carb was never jetted to suit the engine, just fitted out of the the box, so it always had run on issues.
Thats the main reason too that you cant get the idle low enough, those carbs are a pain to jet right
Also check for vacuum leaks too, they're probably the source of your bouncy idle
Thanks Joel. That's interesting and helpful information to have, as I would have assumed that it had been jetted already. I've been suspicious of an intake leak but so far haven't had much luck in tracking one down. Ether from starter fluid gets quickly sucked in through the box air cleaner.
We have used two 009's on and off on several engines, and I quite like them. The older one is German, and the newer one is Mexican. Both have and still do work properly. I'm pretty sure both have only one spring.
With a standard 1600 late beetle engine using a 34 PICT-4, I thought the 009 performed perhaps slightly better than the original Vac/Mech advance one; if there was a flat spot it was not serious. On standard 1600 type 3's they've worked very well; no flat spots; but I've found the driveability & economy to be marginally better with Vac/Mech unit on the same engines. Also with a fairly Modified 1640 that liked to rev. (but only using original 34 PICT-4 for simplicity), performance was very good with the 009.
I had a lot of trouble with worn out parts (esp. vac. advance diaphrams) on the various original distributors, so kept coming back to the 009's when I wanted the engines to 'just go'. Have since found a place in Melb. that can fully recondition distributors (to original specs or otherwise), AND can get the Vac. adv. cans rebuilt. Thanks to this workshop (no doubt there are others) we are now using the oriiginal type distributors again on the type 3's with very good results.
I can't understand how you could run a engine with full advance at lower revs. If this worked engines wouldn't have ignition advance in the first place! Really old cars controlled their speed via a manual advance lever, and as late as the 50's some had an mech-advance over-ride knob on the dashboard, so you could fine-tune as you drove.
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a 009 should have the 2 springs of different strengths. Can't remember quite how it works now but the weaker works for the lower revs and the stronger for the higher 🙂
If you have the facilities or money you can play on a rolling road to get a mech dizzy to run almost as well as a vac advance and it'll be that close that with correct jetting you won't notice 😉
I believe the 009's have had just 1 spring for many years, wont guarantee all tho, even these days, some shops get them custom built to their own spec, so that could change things.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
I got 2 x 009's. Both have one spring. Both Mexican or Brazilian I think. They are both fine. One runs with twin Kad 40's on a 1916 and one runs with a PICT34 (with small modification to stop flat spot) on a 1776. This is the best engine I have for driveability.
