Hi guys, had a search and couldnt find what i was after so figured i'd just ask.
First off, i don't have a beetle yet, im currently away from home working so can't really look, im hoping to get one in july.
When i do get one i was think of putting the 2L engine from a kombi in the beetle. Is this a worth while conversion? Is there any problem with fitment?
Yup it can be done, but it's not just a "bolt it in" sort of caper, tho there are pretty good solutions to most (all?) of the issues.
Search for 'Type IV' or 'Type 4' (which is what a Kombi engine is known as) and you'll find heaps of info, tho this thread is a good starting point:
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=83790#pid781290
Some people swear by it, others are dead against - can't really say either way as I've never personally done or even driven one... I'm more into big'ish Type 1 engines instead.
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urban wrote:Hi guys, had a search and couldnt find what i was after so figured i'd just ask.
First off, i don't have a beetle yet, im currently away from home working so can't really look, im hoping to get one in july.
When i do get one i was think of putting the 2L engine from a kombi in the beetle. Is this a worth while conversion? Is there any problem with fitment?
Although there are many type 4 engines in beetles around the world..
these engines are very expensive to repair compared to a beetle engine
and also use heaps of fuel...
that is probably why subaru flat 4 engines are now common
-use less fuel - more horsepower - etc modern engines
In my humble opinion... don't do it...
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
thanks for that no wonder i couldn't find anything.
(I just have big'ish Type 1 engines instead)
beetle(type 1?) engine goes up to 1.6lt yeah?
Im really just trying to see what my options are. Im aiming for around 100-150hp
if you got the cash you can make a type 1 beetle engine 2332cc :p
Big bore kits and stroker cranks are plentiful. 👍
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
68AutoBug wrote:In my humble opinion... don't do it...
Lee
[/b]
Hey Lee, whats that 'do higgy' thingo on ur fuel pump block off plate?
Chris, the curious....
🙂(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
if you do alot of KMs or need a really torquey engine go the type 4 but as said above theyre way more expensive to build up than a type1 engine, need converting to upright, custom exhaust and theyre alot heavier too
for the cost of a bog stock 1800 or 2L rebuild you can build a pretty kick ass type1 engine
I got a type4 engine about 9 years ago to rebuild for my bug but the cost was what stopped me.
that said though theyre a much more robust and torquey engine than a type1 and well worth the effort if your not worried about the $$
is a kafer cup bar kit a necessity for the extra weight?
is there any requirement to support the extra weight on the forks?
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Thanks for the info guys
in the type 4 defence, it actually uses less fuel than the stock type 1 engine in a bug. 15L compared to 17L from sydney along to the end of the f3. so its actually better at fuel lee.
also yes they are more expensive to build but they last longer than a large type 1 motor.
mines been going now for 4 years since its rebuild and it only got that because the rest of the car got one and it was better to start everything fresh.
it can be almost a bolt up affair if set up right. as all you need to do is change the fan setup to upright and get a decent exhaust.
the last one you would do with a big type one anyway.
urban if you really want to know more ring richard at Vforce and have a chat, he builds both style of motors.
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
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urban wrote:beetle(type 1?) engine goes up to 1.6lt yeah?
Im really just trying to see what my options are. Im aiming for around 100-150hp
Yup, Beetle's are Type 1 and stock they only went to 1600cc (1.6 liter)... rated 60hp at the flywheel, and I've seen 'em dyno about 50-55 at the wheels.
100-150hp is a pretty big range... what are you planning the car for ???
I run a 1915cc Type 1 that puts out 125hp at the wheels, but it's pretty much an all-out race engine. Driving it I spend A LOT of time with a stoopid big grin on my face.
😀 🤓
Previous incarnation of the same engine (also 1915) was less trick and "only" had about 80hp the wheels. That sort of power in a car as light as a beetle is still a huge amount of fun... would eat most V8's if I buried the loud pedal (this is NOT BS - I've spent a fair bit of time driving HSV's).
All in all it just really depends on what you're after and yup - how much $$$ you're prepared to throw at it.
👍VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI -
http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
I've never owned a beetle, or a car thats weighed less then 1400kg so i guess i'll need to see How it feels when i get one. Im not really looking for a racer, i just want something fun and zippy to cruise around in.👍👍👍👍
I've had my 68 Beetle with a 2 litre type 4 for 8 years and I have never had the heads off. With twin 40mm Webers and a mild cam I reckon it puts out 100 to 110 horses, but it is much more flexible than the type 1's of similar capacity and power I've ridden in. I've been doing dirt sprints and autocrosses on a regular basis for the last few years and it holds its own among the rally prepped escorts, datsun 1600's and modern stuff. The weight of the motor is not that different to a type 1 once it's converted to upright cooling, but the extra torque can bend the frame horns, so a Kafer brace or other reinforcement is a good idea.
68AutoBug wrote:and also use heaps of fuel...
In my humble opinion... don't do it...
Lee
[/b]
Would you do some research please before you make posts. You come across as someone who has an answer for everything but don't have the correct answers.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
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urban wrote:I've never owned a beetle, or a car thats weighed less then 1400kg so i guess i'll need to see How it feels when i get one. Im not really looking for a racer, i just want something fun and zippy to cruise around in.👍👍👍👍
Welcome to the Volkswagen world!
The VW Type 1 engine (Beetle) is quite different from the Type 4 engine (Kombi). It's a bit like a VW 'small block' compared with a 'big block'. The general arrangement is the same, but the details and applications are different. Yes it is possible to transplant a Type 4 into a Beetle, but it's a lot of work and a lot of $$.
For a zippy runanbout, the normal Type 1 engine is fine. Remember that the early '60s Beetles used a 1200cc engine that made 40bhp SAE (34 hp DIN). They could do 116 km/h flat out - enough to get you booked anywhere in NSW and VIC. They also raced at Bathurst, finishing 1-3-4 in class in 1963. The 1300 was measurably faster, as was the 1500 - these two are 'sweet spot' engines that gave good performance and longevity - they are the 'best' VW engines. The later 1600 twin port engine gave 60 bhp SAE (50 bhp DIN) and was the biggest fitted to Beetles. These can be taken out to 1915cc with bigger cylinders, or even larger with a stroked crank. Remember the old saying - Speed Costs Money; How Fast Do You Want To Go?
My suggestion to start with would be to buy a nice Beetle, and just drive it as-is for a while before you consider modifying it. Buy some VW books, especially workshop manuals. Join Club Veedub - you can borrow books and manuals for free. Get everything working properly (you're buying a car that it at least 34 years old). Learn to service, adjust, lube and tune your standard VW first, and then you'll be in a great position to know how to go about modifying it if necessary.
Good luck!
The fact is that both type IV and type 1 can be made to perform how you want them and also show similar economy and/or performance (I am not talking of stock builds) it comes down to dollars, parts used, and purpose. A type 1 is more economical at most levels of rebuild and performance. Just 70-80hp at the wheels in the beetle and you will have an absolute ball. Save up for a good rebuild where you don't have to compromise.
Although there are many type 4 engines in beetles around the world..
these engines are very expensive to repair compared to a beetle engine
and also use heaps of fuel...
that is probably why subaru flat 4 engines are now common
-use less fuel - more horsepower - etc modern engines
In my humble opinion... don't do it...
Lee
[/b] [/quote]
You have got to be kidding right, that's the most ridiculous statement I have read regarding the type 4 engine in a while, frankly its just bullshit.
T4:
all aluminium case,
full flow,
flanged crank,
bigger mains,
1700, 1800, 2000cc
+ lots more and from the VW factory.
To sum it up, its a T1 on steroids, ok there are some flaws with it, but not enough to deter people from converting it to upright, even in stock form fitted with home made modified T1 doghouse cooler and cylinder tins, twin webers, a $600 exhaust system from a few dealers in the US, it becomes bags of fun in a light weight vehicle with plenty of torque.
Hey Urban, get a bug throw in a T4............end of story, let me know if you need some help with it or go to
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/ for all the info.
Also, people with no first hand knowledge about the T4 should keep their opinions to themselves so as not to confuse those requiring correct information........politely said.
bitten by the bug..........several times
i am going down the type 4 conversion path for my split and have had a good time researching options. i am choosing the type 4 because i feel that i can benefit from a larger bore while not compromising the bottom end by cutting material out for a larger set of pistons and barrels (such as required when beefing up a type 1 case). the type 4 in standard form is known to be a torqier (?) engine which is what i am after for my split. not race. with 40 idf webers and a few little upgrades to ignition, i believe i can put a motor together for the same $ as a type one. this is my choice.
i think we all need to remember that this forum is a great resource and is made with contributions of mainly opinion based on experience. i am sure that opinions will clash with each other and we need to remember to take this with a grain of salt if it goes against our own opinion.
I appreciate all the advice i have been getting off this particular type of thread lately and in particular, deluxe 66, rod penrose and klaus!
cheers fella's, i am looking forward to buying you guys a beer at valla
"this forum is a great resource and is made with contributions of mainly opinion based on experience"
well said
bitten by the bug..........several times
Hi all,
My brother has been running Type IV engines in a couple of his Beetles for several years - everything from stock 1800's to 2.5liters. From what I have seen (and in my opinion) the positives clearly outweigh the negatives.
Sure, the build-up process is more expensive, but the type IV's will last much longer than the Type I engines in the same circumstances, so therefore some of the build-up cost is recovered. My brother built and destroyed numerous Type I engines with his ...er...rather vigorous driving style and with the massive number of miles covered, before swapping to the Type IV powerplant.
Yes the Type IV engines are heavier - we fitted a rear engine mount (possibly the same as the Kafer Cup bars mentioned above?) to stop any damage from the extra weight.
The Type IV engines can easily be fitted with Hydraulic lifters which reduces the amount of time spend servicing them - something that is incredibly expensive to do to a Type I engine.
As with any engine conversion, there are positives and negatives - the Type I engine is not a bad engine, but my choice is the Type IV, simply because I would rather be driving my car than working on it!
R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements
😂
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂sounds OK for $20, but there is not a lot of detail about the contents of the book given on the web page...
... perhaps it would be a good place to start, since the author has installed a Type IV into a Beetle....
R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements
😂
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂i've just bought it so i will let you know as soon as it shows up.
cheers
