Read that in the USA, due to pollution laws over there, ZPPD or Zinc is being drastically reduced as the zinc caused catalytic converters to fail [after many years]..
Castrol GTX was a favorite used by Many classic car owners..
but now, many people with old classic cars are going for diesel engine oil, which still has the zinc in it...
anyone know if Aussie oil still has the ZPPD in it???
One fellow in the US got 600 miles out of a new cam...
The Cam Manufacturer knew of the zinc problem...
YIKES...
LEE
PS: Maybe I should use two stroke oil in the fuel... lol??
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Not much zinc from the oil will be able to get through from the sump to the combustion chamber to the cat convertor unless there was a dud valve stem seal or blow by problem anyways, wouldn't it?
Or does it only require miniscule amounts to stuff up the cat? (which surely there would be very miniscule amounts of oil entering the combustion chamber constantly, as the piston rings aren't ever 100% efficient at sealing)
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Correct Lee, but there is a high zinc/phosphate content oil available.....ACE Oil....Air Cooled Engine Oil, Ace 30 is a 20W-40 and ACE 40, 25W-50... Australian owned too. Has higher ZDDP than Brad Penn, also recommended for air cooled flat tappet engines.
Plenty in stock....$40 for 5 liters.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
hmmmm good price.
you promoting that stuff at shows matt?
I used to buy Castrol GTX, but the quality of the oil recently has changed, now i use Penrite Classic Medium which has a decent level of zinc additive.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/Classic%20Engine%20Oils%20JAN%202010.pdf
thats a VERY good article
👍(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
colonel mustard wrote:hmmmm good price.
you promoting that stuff at shows matt?
Nah Colonel, I'll leave that to John, the chemist that developed the stuff, he's a Volksie dude too.
Here's the spec sheet
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
matberry wrote:colonel mustard wrote:hmmmm good price.
you promoting that stuff at shows matt?
Nah Colonel, I'll leave that to John, the chemist that developed the stuff, he's a Volksie dude too.
Here's the spec sheet
I think you will find Penrite Classic has a higher content of zinc compared with ACE oils 0.176% to 0.11%
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/Classic%20Engine%20Oils%20JAN%202010.pdfACE 5-S 👍 fully synthetic vw oil 😵
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
57oval wrote:matberry wrote:colonel mustard wrote:hmmmm good price.
you promoting that stuff at shows matt?
Nah Colonel, I'll leave that to John, the chemist that developed the stuff, he's a Volksie dude too.
Here's the spec sheet
I think you will find Penrite Classic has a higher content of zinc compared with ACE oils 0.176% to 0.11%
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/Classic%20Engine%20Oils%20JAN%202010.pdf
I haven't the spec sheet for Penrite. I have an aversion to Penrite and never use or recommend it for any of my engines.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Just checked your link and yes it seems to have a higher ZDDP level, but I have issues with Penrite viscosities, they don't seem to conform to industry standards, although I can't back this up, it has been confirmed to me verbally in the past.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Our work ute is a vw transporter and its got a massive sticker warning about overfilling the oil level will stuff the cat, maybe people are doing this as well.
my pennzoil gt performance mineral 20/50 contains hight levels of zinc
but i heard that they are going to stop selling pennzoil in au??
BUY A REAL BUG A PRE S BUG...
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:Our work ute is a vw transporter and its got a massive sticker warning about overfilling the oil level will stuff the cat, maybe people are doing this as well.
THE AVERAGE PERSON doesn't even look at the dipstick... lol
so over filling is probably not an issue...
years ago Holden replaced the dipsticks on its engines when they increased the oil changes by 5 or 10 thousand kms..
many cars ran out of oil as the owners didn't check the oil and it ran out before the oil change was due..
Holden issued new dipsticks with a higher OIL Level... lol
Many years ago... back in the 60's... lol
when You pulled up at a service station...
the attendent would hook up the fuel and press the lever so the fuel flows while He's not there...
He then checked the oil dipstick... [water in those vehicles]
and even checked the air pressure in the tyres... lol
Now those were the days...
How much oil the attendant put in>> who knows.. lol
a bit off topic... lol
cheers
LEE
PS: many of those stickers were a legal requirement...- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
well...
I am no longer a happy Castrol oil user...
I notice now that GTX2 and GTX3 both have modern engines
printed on the containers... ??
unless I can find out if GTX still has good levels or Zinc.... ???
I'll be using something else...???
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I looked at Shell oils today and the **/50 oil in the red container is made to SJ standards...
so that should mean it still has Zinc in it...??
also Valvoline Premium **/50 is also an SJ
most of the others were SL or the New SM rating...
which is the latest rating... for new cars...
LEE
PS: I need to get proof first before I switch...
but definately No More Castrol used in My Beetle....
-
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Is there a stockist of ACE in south east Qld?
Good on ya Frosty
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
As some have written before, for A.C.E's, go for SJ or SH, then SL, then either SG or SM -- generally in that order. SJ usually has the highest levels of ZDDP. The S ratings are a minmum spec however, and it may be posssible to find a relatively high level SL, or a low level SG, say. ie. The S- ratings give a BROAD picture -- use the makers spec. for each element, if you need exact levels of Zinc etc.
Diesel oils (C-) have almost always had higher/better additive levels than the contemporary Petrol (S-) grades. Higher is not always 'better' though, depending on the exact use.
Castrol and GTX only live on as BP-owned trade names, as far as I know.
Pennzoil also only exists, I believe, as a Shell tradename. These products evolve, as they must, over time. This is generally to suit the bulk of the market.
ACE 30 & 40 oils: specifically engineered for your Air Cooled VW
delivered (free del.) throughout Yarra Valley / Ranges, & Gippsland areas. Also ACE 20, 50 & 90.
FOR SALE: ACE 30, 40 etc. Oil formulations & Trade-names.
ahh this struck a bell.
wonder if this would be any good?
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1810
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Yes
I noticed that castrol is owned by BP in Australia..
LEE
BRUTUS wrote:As has been written before, for A.C.E's, go for SJ or SH, then SL, then either SG or SM in that order. SJ generally has the highest levels of ZDDP. The S ratings are a minmum spec however, and it may be posssible to find a relatively high level SL, or a low level SG, say. ie. The S- ratings give a BROAD picture -- use the makers spec. for each element, in preference.
Diesle oils (C-) have always had higher/better levels than the contemporary Petrol (S-) grades.
Castrol and GTX only live on as BP-owned trade names, as far as I know.
Pennzoil also only exists, I believe, as a Shell tradename. These products evolve, as they must, over time. This is generally to suit the bulk of the market.
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Molybdenum disulphide was used years ago to coat the camshaft etc when an engine was assembled.. to stop premature wear..
then the ZDDP in the oil continued to lubricate the camshaft etc
I'm sure something will pop up to fix the Problem...??
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
i doubt these oil discussions will ever stop so i may as well chime in.
the Penrite HPR Gas oils would be worth a look. know lots of guys using this in older cars.
Non friction modified and has the same zinc levels as the classic range of oils. wide multi vis range means better oil flow on cold starts but still maintains a higher viscosity when hot.
the zinc is a problem for moden cars because of the emissions systems. crankcase venting means oil vapour travels through intake and exhaust. never used to be a problem but know that emissions standards are so much tighter the cats etc are much more vulnerable to damage.
i could be wrong on some of this but i have had many a discussion with many oil reps and people in the industry about this.
cheers
edwin
Brutus in the post a couple above, is an oil chemist, and he mentioned to me that the wider the viscosity range the more additives are in the oil and therefore there's less oil actually doing it's job, of lubricating and holding impurities in suspension etc etc. That is why the ACE has a narower vis range, essentially your getting a tougher oil.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
I know the oil debate will never go away, but always believe that you need to make decisions about what products you use based on facts rather than opinions.
Lee, I had a chat with a good friend yesterday who is an experienced mechanical engineer specialising in lubricants and works for BP. Australian Castrol oils still have the zinc, as our laws are different to the US.
He suggested that you phone the Castrol Lubricants tech line and talk to them about your requirements so you can get accurate information relating to Australian Castrol products. I would expect that all the other oil sellers in Australia would also be happy to discuss the suitability of their products for your air cooled VW. Cheers
matberry wrote:Brutus in the post a couple above, is an oil chemist, and he mentioned to me that the wider the viscosity range the more additives are in the oil and therefore there's less oil actually doing it's job, of lubricating and holding impurities in suspension etc etc. That is why the ACE has a narrower vis range, essentially your getting a tougher oil.
Thats right. Those additives don't last long in a vw engine. I think the broad spectrum muti visc oils aren't compatible with the vw oil relief system, ultimately destroying the oil faster like a vicious cycle.
I have been looking at how this relief system works. I noted that if the high temp viscosity (2nd viscosity No.) is to high the oil cooler is bypassed when i should already be flowing if it were mono grade SAE 30 which leads to the oil heating up too much, thus destroying the additives then flipping the other way, becoming very thin oil.
yep muti grade for the water pumper has always been crap in vws. People should just get ACE oil and be done with it.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
vlad01 wrote:yep muti grade for the water pumper has always been crap in vws. People should just get ACE oil and be done with it.
Too right.
👍
Good explanation above, I agree with your theory.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
hulbyw wrote:I know the oil debate will never go away, but always believe that you need to make decisions about what products you use based on facts rather than opinions.
Lee, I had a chat with a good friend yesterday who is an experienced mechanical engineer specialising in lubricants and works for BP. Australian Castrol oils still have the zinc, as our laws are different to the US.
He suggested that you phone the Castrol Lubricants tech line and talk to them about your requirements so you can get accurate information relating to Australian Castrol products. I would expect that all the other oil sellers in Australia would also be happy to discuss the suitability of their products for your air cooled VW. Cheers
Great news..
I was a bit worried as castrol gtx2 has had an SM/ rating for at least a year...
I notice that GTX is still an SJ/ rating...
cheers
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
