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engine size / year (again)

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donn Wolfsburg Elder

3,515 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#796741
Ok, done a search and it seems my new engine is a 50 hp 1584cc but damned if I can find anything else, (manufacture year frinstance) also there are a couple of numbers low down on the side of the case, what do they mean?
Engine number AS242810
Numbers on the side:-
AS41
?5(vw logo) 043.101.101.....Question mark is what it looks like but most probably a 2 or 3

other side :-
29 (vw logo) 043.101.102
Do these numbers represent anything important and can any one supply a site where this info would be available for future reference.
Thanks
Don
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#796743
Well... if it's a 1584cc it's actually 60hp DIN rated... 1500's were 53hp, and 1300's were 50hp.

AS41 is the type of alloy used in the case... the only other option I know of is AS21. Pretty sure the AS21 is slightly harder than AS41... more magnesium in it I think ??? The later cases were made from AS41.

043.101.101 and 043.101.102 are the part numbers for the case... although the two halves are matched to each other, the start life as two separate parts (castings).

As to other sites, well type2.com, shoptalkforums.com and thesamba.com are good starting points... oh and of course never understimate the power of google !!!

😉
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
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Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#796761
Dave, the 60hp (and 53hp 1500 and 50 hp 1300) were SAE, not DIN. SAE is a higher figure because it doesn't take into account accessories like the generator and fan. DIN, the lower figure, is more a 'real word' figure. For example, the good old '40 horse' 1200 was 40 bhp SAE, but only 34 hp DIN.

So yes the 1584cc was 50 bhp DIN (or PS in German-speak, for pferde-starke, 'horse power'), or 60bhp SAE.

The ASnnnnnn was a late 1600 engine used in Superbugs from the beginning of 1974. Earlier Superbugs used an AD engine number. US websites are useful as a general guide to when engine numbers began and ended, but remember they are for US market VWs. Australian VWs were assembled from German CKD kits in Melbourne, and may have different numbers and different times than the US sites say.

donn Wolfsburg Elder

3,515 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#796762
http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/boxeng2.htm
Thanks Dave and Phil, this is the place I got what info I have, so Phil your suggesting that the engine is out of a Super?
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#796769
Phil74Camper wrote:Dave, the 60hp (and 53hp 1500 and 50 hp 1300) were SAE, not DIN. SAE is a higher figure because it doesn't take into account accessories like the generator and fan. DIN, the lower figure, is more a 'real word' figure. For example, the good old '40 horse' 1200 was 40 bhp SAE, but only 34 hp DIN.
Ah, cool - thanks for the correction !!!

🙂
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#796773
donn wrote:http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/boxeng2.htm
Thanks Dave and Phil, this is the place I got what info I have, so Phil your suggesting that the engine is out of a Super?
with that engine number its either from a late 75Lbug or an early 76 flat screener, they used the last of the Lbug engines up before production stopped

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 ·

#796784
Phil74Camper wrote:Dave, the 60hp (and 53hp 1500 and 50 hp 1300) were SAE, not DIN. SAE is a higher figure because it doesn't take into account accessories like the generator and fan. DIN, the lower figure, is more a 'real word' figure. For example, the good old '40 horse' 1200 was 40 bhp SAE, but only 34 hp DIN.

So yes the 1584cc was 50 bhp DIN (or PS in German-speak, for pferde-starke, 'horse power'), or 60bhp SAE.

The ASnnnnnn was a late 1600 engine used in Superbugs from the beginning of 1974. Earlier Superbugs used an AD engine number. US websites are useful as a general guide to when engine numbers began and ended, but remember they are for US market VWs. Australian VWs were assembled from German CKD kits in Melbourne, and may have different numbers and different times than the US sites say.
Just wondering on the 1584 cc (1600) SAE HP Phil. With the dual carb version the output is 65 BHP which seems little gain if the Bug engine outputs 60 BHP, presumably with some sort of single carb. I was thinking on the lines of if a single carb 1500 is around the 53 BHP, a single carb 1600 wouldn't have much more grunt in relation to BHP.

DH

Bookwus Seriously Crusin Dubber

120 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#796808
Hiya Donn,

You might be interested in what Garwood (Car of the Century V2) has to say about the "AS" series of engines.

The "AS" engines were first produced in the 1974 model year and were continued through the end of December 1979. These engines were 1584 ccm, dual ports, producing 50 hp DIN/60 hp SAE. They were made for export to markets other than North America. And they were carbed engines rather than fuel injection.

Your particular engine (242810) would have come off the production line (assuming production ran at an even rate per month) in late March of 1975
Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Have an AutoStick? Check out www.auto-stick.com

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#796818
1500S wrote:Just wondering on the 1584 cc (1600) SAE HP Phil. With the dual carb version the output is 65 BHP which seems little gain if the Bug engine outputs 60 BHP, presumably with some sort of single carb. I was thinking on the lines of if a single carb 1500 is around the 53 BHP, a single carb 1600 wouldn't have much more grunt in relation to BHP.

DH
May be all torque Dallas...?? lol
seems the 1300 got good gain but the 1500 not much at all, but 1641 seems to be the ideal engine displacement if You want more HP...?? I wouldn't think 1641 would make much extra either?? than a 1584cc engine..

My 1600 single port semi auto really goes great...
Really pleased with the way it goes at the moment...
[depending greatly on what fuel is being used??]
I will be adding Pertronix to the dizzy this week, and then a High Energy Ignition later on...
which did make a difference before...

cheers

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#797008
Thanks Mike, yes the Australian Superbugs were built from CKD parts shipped in crates from Germany. When Superbug body kits were no longer available towards the end of 1975, the Australian factory used the old 1300 body shell and torsion bar pan (but with front disk brakes), mixed with the Superbug's gearbox, rear IRS suspension and 1600 engine, to make the 1976 VW 1600 Beetle. It was really just using up left-over parts before the factory conveted to assembling Golfs. Production ended in July 1976, so we didn't see any more new Beetles in Australia after that. And yes, all our Beetles were carb. No fuel injection at all.

Yes Don, the 1600 Beetle engine wasn't much of an increase, power-wise, over the 1300, let alone the 1500. I don't have the torque figures in front of me, but that might be a slightly different story. The twin-port 1600 was designed to meet US smog regulations - it ran hotter and leaner than earlier engines, hence the changes to the oil system and cooler - not to put out extra gobs of power. The 1500, and especially the 1300, were really VW's 'sweet spot' engines.

The Type 3 1600 did put out a bit more power than the Beetle engine - 65 bhp SAE compared with 60 in the Superbug. They had twin carbs or fuel injection, and from memory I think their compression was slightly higher too - and even the cam profile may have been slightly different. To my knowledge, the 1966 Type 3 TS fastback was the fastest air-cooled Volkswagen ever sold in Australia.

Lee the 1641 wasn't a factory engine (and certainly not ideal!) It was a standard 1600 with 'slip-in' 87mm big bore cylinders. A little more power but decreased reliability due to thinner cylinder walls and poor sealing. I'm not even sure you can still buy 87mm piston/cylinder kits.

donn Wolfsburg Elder

3,515 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#798454
I've done the search again on a new number (AD 866821) I'd like to know what you fellas come up with and where did you get your info?
Thanks
Don
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!

Bookwus Seriously Crusin Dubber

120 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#798485
Hiya Donn,

The "AD" series of engines was in production from 1971 through 1973. These were all dual ports developing 60 hp SAE/50 hp DIN. Your specific engine would have been produced around the middle (probably January or February) of the 1973 production year.
Mike

1970 AS Bug
1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

Have an AutoStick? Check out www.auto-stick.com

donn Wolfsburg Elder

3,515 posts · joined Nov 2005 ·

#798486
Thanks Bookwus (what does that mean anyway?) I found simillar but not quite as specific, where do you get your info, I believe there is also a site for gearbox numbers, years, ratios etc, any clues.

AD 37 Kw 50 Hp 1584 cc 1 08/'70>07'73
AD 37 Kw 50 Hp 1584 cc 2 08/'70>04/'79

also not sure what the "1" and the "2" are after the capacity, at first thought it may have been single or dual port but discounted that fairly quickly.

Thanks
Don
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!