The recent Corvair engine thread reminded me of some weird intake systems that I've seen. Anyone seen any unusual ones?
Probably the strangest that I can remember was on a F.J. Holden race car, driven by Kingsley Hibbard, in the early '60s. It had a 6 cylinder 'grey' motor, fitted with 5 (five) Amal motorbike carbies. They were on a 'log' style manifold, feeding into 3 inlet ports. It worked well, as he was one of the quickest around then.
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Not the weirdest, but did get me wondering, dual weber progressives on a 1915 type 1, quite a new kit. Apart from the linkage being a compromise, they worked nicely.
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Weirdest I've ever seen was actually VW related 😂
Came across this on thesamba a few years ago
Yeah I saw that set-up on there as well!
Imagine syncing 3 carbs on that motor!
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sander288 wrote:Yeah I saw that set-up on there as well!
Imagine syncing 3 carbs on that motor!
Yeah what a nightmare!
whats the fuel pump off looks like early holden
I'll see your x5 Amals and raise you x1, Greg
- Don Algies Falcon straight six of the same era - x6 Amals, but more conventionally, x1 per cylinder - a throttle cable management nightmare.
For many years I ran a 40HP with 1400 kit, running a Grey Holden Carb with VariJet for tuning - good for power but just couldn't lean it up quite enough for economy.
Not weird, but maybe unusual?: German SS manifolds wearing a pair of 356 32NDIX Zeniths on a twin port 1600. Anyone done it?
Also, Does anyone know of a pair of Fish Carbs being used on a twin port 1600?? Any balancing issues??
Lance.
You're right about Don Algie's Falcon, Lance - and it went well too! I ran my Beetle in the same race as Don a few times, in the under 1600 class. I think Don and Kingsley Hibbard were mates, and probably shared Amal info.
In 1960 I had a pair of Amal carbies on my 36 hp Beetle, and King. Hibbard (that's what they called him) showed me how to stop them from flooding. The cables were a nightmare, as you say, and I remember some scary moments with the Amals stuck wide open.🙄 Lucky it was only a stock 36 hp. 😂
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Hi
I had twin 32 NDIX Zeniths on my bug in the 70s, they made all the right noises but were about equal to Holley bugspray in performance.
I saw a motor fitted with 2 x Solex 34 Pict3 carbs from a Superbug, I don't know how it ran.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Do you have any recall as to the Venturis in the Zeniths - ie: 24mm(356 Normal 60HP) or 28mm(356Super 75HP)?
I've often wondered about the basic differences between the TwinPort VW 1600 giving ~55HP and the 356 Normal giving 60HP @~4500rpm.
On the road, the difference seems to be a lot greater than that (the 356 does an easy 160kph) with deeper gearing and plenty of performance around the VWs top speed - 140kph-ish.
Makes you wonder, why all of the fancy Head work, extra compression, cam and x4 throats of carby on the 356 only delivers an extra 5HP or the other way around; why the VW loaded up with clean-air overheads and a single carb does so well. Gearing??
Thanks for the feedback Steve.
Greg, I bet that your 36hp felt like 136hp with throttles stuck open and approaching Creek Corner at Warwick Farm.
Lance.
There's SAE HP, and there's DIN HP, Lance.🙄 One thing about kilowatts, they're all the same.
Jack Bono loaned me a pair of 32 NDIX Zeniths to try on my 'worked' 1286cc, 40 HP in 1961. The twin 1.75" SUs worked much better. 👍, probably due to the single ports.
I never raced the 36HP Beetle, probably just as well.
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Yes, I thought that VWs/Porsches were all rated with the DIN standard - the 'D' being 'Germany' (Deutsches Institut für Normung).
Maybe the VW layout gained with the long Intake track allowing a lot of acceleration of the incoming charge to dump into the cylinders. 'Have always liked the twin plenum pipes - getting rid of the 'T' in the manifold - must be an advantage - I know that one of the factory 356 based offroaders went that way, with a single NDIX. The current Historic Racing of the 50s era 356s in Europe and the US, the Zeniths now get some heavy reworking and VERY long skinny ram tubes. ie. If you can't have big holes, have long ones to 'ram' the gas in.
Do you remember what carbs that Jack ran prior to supercharging - I presume that his 1500 engine originally ran single throat Solexs (40mms?) - I wonder, did he run the NDIXs (that he lent you) in the time between the single throat Solexs and the Supercharger??
Also, do you remember what carbs that Ted Proctor ran in his hillclimber? I know that he was still doing engine development in the 356B era - Solex 40 PII-4s where used in Super90s by then - he could possibly has been using those?? I know that he was using 'B' stuff as I bought a 'B' engine third piece from him. He also 'breathed upon' his VW engined road cars, shupercharged one , I think.
I wonder what happened to his fantastic Kombi based, flatbed for the race cars.
Regs, Lance.
The 36 & 40 HP were SAE ratings, thanks to the yanks - they always go for the bigger numbers.😂
Jack Bono had a nice set-up, where he used the 32NDIX (the ones that I borrowed) for the road - including to and from the track. The Marshall supercharger, which had a 2 inch SU bolted to its intake, was set up to bolt onto the 356 manifolds. At the track, Jack would whip off the carbies, bolt on the blower assy, whack a drive belt on and go.🙄 He did this in just a few minutes! Later he built a trailer. He offered the 356, registered, with trailer, ready to race, to me for 500 pounds! Stupid me knocked it back.😬 I could have stolen the 500 quid, or something!
Ted Proctor did a lot of clever things, but I did not know him very well - he kept to himself, mostly. I'd forgotten about the Kombi - it was very 'Ted'.
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
I ran twin Reece fish on a 1835 many years ago and once set up it was superb and never in 8 years needed any adjustments. On a standard 1600 I reckon you'd be much better off with a single Fish and if I could only get my hands on another one now I would be such a happy boy.
oldtub356 wrote:Hi Steve,
Do you have any recall as to the Venturis in the Zeniths - ie: 24mm(356 Normal 60HP) or 28mm(356Super 75HP)?
Lance.
Hi
It was a long time ago, I cant remember what size they were.
I did have 46 IDAs on my WBX powered bug, these were also used on a 904 Porsche, I still get emails about these, I sold them for $1000 au years ago, they would be worth heaps more now.
Steve
"I ran twin Reece fish on a 1835 many years ago and once set up it was superb and never in 8 years needed any adjustments. On a standard 1600 I reckon you'd be much better off with a single Fish and if I could only get my hands on another one now I would be such a happy boy."
Hi 'ancient' one, thanks for the input. Any idea what size throats on the Reece Fishs that you ran. I'm currently running a single M1 Fish on an otherwise standard 1600 (plus 050 distributor) - is a bit over size at low revs but reacts nicely with a bit of a boot. 'Expect that it would better suit an 1835 - am interested in a smaller pair of Reece or Minnow - probably the sizes that were used as a single on a Mini 850 or Hillman Imp. I had a bit of a collection of them in the shed somewhere but haven't seen them for years. 'Will let you know when I get my head around it!!
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"It was a long time ago, I cant remember what size they were."
Thanks Steve, I guess it needs some trial and error - I'll start with the larger venturis, a bit extra compression and 1835 - just a bit extra torque for the hills on the expressway.
Thanks, Lance.
oldtub356 wrote:I wonder what happened to his fantastic Kombi based, flatbed for the race cars.
Just stumbled across this thread...I know I know, grave digging and all that.
Anyway sad to say that Kombi is gone. I bought it from Ted in about '94 basically for the engine... rust had gotten to it bad, and what wasn't parted out ended up as landfill.
On a positive note, the warmed over 1640 from it went great in my beetle for quite a while, and helped to get me well and truly hooked on Volksy's !!!
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My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI -
http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
I tried running HS6 SU a couples of years back
ran like pig
so back to 32-36 east-west mounted..
Nice stumbling Dave, here you go, maybe in better days.
a mate ran mikuni flat sliges on a 2.6 astron improved production sigma, went alright.
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narumi wrote:I tried running HS6 SU a couples of years back
ran like pig
so back to 32-36 east-west mounted..
You should have spent a bit more time on them, assuming there were two of them.
After much tuning, my '61 Beetle [40hp, bored to 80mm to give 1286cc] clocked 102 MPH at Bathurst in 1963. As it was my road car, and I drove it to work each day, it also needed to be smooth and economical, which it was.
When the needles that I needed were not available, I had to file them [a bit tricky doing two the same]. There are different springs available, which alter the lift of the pistons, and the damper oil can be 'fiddled with', to give smooth acceleration.
SUs are good carbies - when they are set up correctly, and have the advantage of variable choke size [controlled by manifold pressure].
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
oldtub356 wrote:Nice stumbling Dave, here you go, maybe in better days.
Heh heh, yeah - amazing what you can find on the interweb hey !!!
😉
That's the one all right, and basically the same config as when I got it. If it wasn't for all the rust through it would've been a pretty sweet rig I reckon...
👍VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI -
http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
