mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
as it states whats a "normal" circuit car with cage weigh?
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what does yor circuit racer weigh?
johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber
366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·
800 ish kilos street car (no cage)
just as long as I don't sit in it 😂
just as long as I don't sit in it 😂
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
No.8 Beetle WAS 720Kg, plus driver. A lot more now with roll cage, and it is noticeably slower.👎
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
My Hillclimb car was 830kg (WSID scales) plus my weight of 100KG !!!
Sides Veteran Volks Folk
2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·
Heh - TOO MUCH !!!
😂
Two famous Colin Chapman (founder of Lotus) quotes:
- To add speed, add lightness.
- Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.
From what I've heard 800-850kg is about the norm for a BJ IRS car.... if you can get under that you'll be doing VERY well.
Obviously K+L and Swinger would be a little bit lighter to start with.
😎
😂
Two famous Colin Chapman (founder of Lotus) quotes:
- To add speed, add lightness.
- Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.
From what I've heard 800-850kg is about the norm for a BJ IRS car.... if you can get under that you'll be doing VERY well.
Obviously K+L and Swinger would be a little bit lighter to start with.
😎
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mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
craig what have you removed from your hc bug? my 76 has been stripped within an inch of its life with a ten point cage am keen to find out what it weighs theres not much left except about 18 lms of 44.45 cds!
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HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
Extra weight is particularly harmful to a hillclimb car. It takes energy to lift an object, therefore - in theory - if two cars have identical power/weight ratios, and identical drag race times, the lighter of the two will be quicker up a hill!
Looks like K&L&SA is the way to go.😂😂
Looks like K&L&SA is the way to go.😂😂
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
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TheMiniMan Insano Dub Head
849 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·
280kgs :-)
true :-)
true :-)
Sides Veteran Volks Folk
2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·
Hmmm... not so sure Greg.
My physics is a bit rusty, but here goes:
Power = Work / Time
Work = Force * Distance
Force = Mass * Acceleration
Expanding you get:
Power = Mass * (Accel Gravity + Aero Drag) * Distance / Time
- or -
Power / Mass = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag) * Distance / Time
So if two cars have exactly the same Power/Weight ratio, you can substitute for Power / Mass
(Accel Gravity + Aero Drag 1) * Distance 1 / Time 1 = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag 2) * Distance 2 / Time 2
But gravity is a constant... so the two times become a function of Aero Drag and Distance (ie the lines taken).
Nothing at all about weight !!!
(oh and we all know that BJ IRS beetles let you take better lines)
😂
My physics is a bit rusty, but here goes:
Power = Work / Time
Work = Force * Distance
Force = Mass * Acceleration
Expanding you get:
Power = Mass * (Accel Gravity + Aero Drag) * Distance / Time
- or -
Power / Mass = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag) * Distance / Time
So if two cars have exactly the same Power/Weight ratio, you can substitute for Power / Mass
(Accel Gravity + Aero Drag 1) * Distance 1 / Time 1 = (Accel Gravity + Aero drag 2) * Distance 2 / Time 2
But gravity is a constant... so the two times become a function of Aero Drag and Distance (ie the lines taken).
Nothing at all about weight !!!
(oh and we all know that BJ IRS beetles let you take better lines)
😂
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
A lot of fancy stuff there, Dave,🙄 but can you explain why truckies prefer to park at the top of a hill - or at least on the level - as it means less effort to get moving again?👍
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Sides Veteran Volks Folk
2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·
Heh heh... that's easy.
Have you ever tried to climb into a truck that's parked facing up hill ??? The door always tries to slam shut on you !!!
😂 😂
Have you ever tried to climb into a truck that's parked facing up hill ??? The door always tries to slam shut on you !!!
😂 😂
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
Not on a Tempo Matador they don't !👍
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
It had the back seat and carpets removed.....BUT, it then had a 6 point cage, swaybars, front end stiffeners, quaife diff, twin carbs and bracing added !!!mactaylor wrote:craig what have you removed from your hc bug? my 76 has been stripped within an inch of its life with a ten point cage am keen to find out what it weighs theres not much left except about 18 lms of 44.45 cds!
My car was HEAVY, but as I was winning i didnt really care ! Different case now as the beetles are lighter, so the lighter your car the better 😎
hypo-vw Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
2,151 posts · joined May 2004 ·
in 1999 I did a lot of homework and research into how I could lighten the WPVW sports sedan to prepare it for the 2000 NSW & Australian Hillclimb championships . I cut out all the double panels (except door pillars) , fitted lexcen to all windows , cut passenger seat runner from pan , even went to the extent of purchasing 100 aluminum bolts which were all used in the sports sedan with a total saving of 750grams . The most important improvement was the alloy super-lite race wheels , 15x10's up front & 16x11's at the rear weighing in at just 6 kilos per rim .
As it had been logbooked by CAMS prior to december 1998 it is approved with an aluminum cage , so in 2000 I contested and won both the NSW & Australian hillclimb championships in the sports sedan 2001-3000 class with a weight of 640kg . Add to that my weight and the race weight was 740kg , with 181bhp @ the wheels .
In 2002 rule changes were implemented for sports sedans and I had to add 160kg to the WPVW sports sedan to comply with the 2842ml engine . I did this by removing the 6-point aluminum cage and manufacturing a full steel cage from bumper to bumper . I borrowed a set of V8 supercar digital scales and relocated battery , dry-sump oil tank etc to get my corner weights as close to perfect as possible with the rear engined car .
I did acheive the desired results and the WPVW sports sedan had increased in weight to 805kg . I raced in this format for only 4 race meetings and then competed at the 2003 Australian hillclimb championships , were I found that the rule changes were not being followed by anyone in the sports sedan category . I came 2nd (by 0.2sec)to a Ford Anglia powered by a mazda rotary and the Anglia had no roll-cage at all fitted (just a single rollover hoop) and was clearly 200+ kg lighter than my car .
I returned home from the Australians in 2003 , cut the entire cage from the sports sedan ( which I still have stored) and fitted a full aluminum cage from bumper to bumper . I still made the WPVW sports sedan legal by reducing the engine size to 2440ml (still the same engine as being used now) and making it comply with a weight of 700kg . With the driver 800kg ...
and that is how it still stands today
As it had been logbooked by CAMS prior to december 1998 it is approved with an aluminum cage , so in 2000 I contested and won both the NSW & Australian hillclimb championships in the sports sedan 2001-3000 class with a weight of 640kg . Add to that my weight and the race weight was 740kg , with 181bhp @ the wheels .
In 2002 rule changes were implemented for sports sedans and I had to add 160kg to the WPVW sports sedan to comply with the 2842ml engine . I did this by removing the 6-point aluminum cage and manufacturing a full steel cage from bumper to bumper . I borrowed a set of V8 supercar digital scales and relocated battery , dry-sump oil tank etc to get my corner weights as close to perfect as possible with the rear engined car .
I did acheive the desired results and the WPVW sports sedan had increased in weight to 805kg . I raced in this format for only 4 race meetings and then competed at the 2003 Australian hillclimb championships , were I found that the rule changes were not being followed by anyone in the sports sedan category . I came 2nd (by 0.2sec)to a Ford Anglia powered by a mazda rotary and the Anglia had no roll-cage at all fitted (just a single rollover hoop) and was clearly 200+ kg lighter than my car .
I returned home from the Australians in 2003 , cut the entire cage from the sports sedan ( which I still have stored) and fitted a full aluminum cage from bumper to bumper . I still made the WPVW sports sedan legal by reducing the engine size to 2440ml (still the same engine as being used now) and making it comply with a weight of 700kg . With the driver 800kg ...
and that is how it still stands today
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
colin Fahrvergnugen
984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·
err hello!mactaylor wrote:good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
I politely beg to differ.
Where your car can be adversely affected by weight, a good driver will be quick in a 700kg or a 800kg car.
Cheers Col
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Sides quote of Chapman was good, as any lower weight means you can brake later into a corner and corner faster, the car will be better on its tires.
Its intersting in the tarmac rally's drivers want the lightest nav possible, but then are 15kg overweight thenselves!
THe L bug should be fully stripped for the first time later this year (always just been rear seat and thats it), will be interesting to see what I can get it down to before starting on the other stuff like alloy's rather than steel wheels, cage add etc
Its intersting in the tarmac rally's drivers want the lightest nav possible, but then are 15kg overweight thenselves!
THe L bug should be fully stripped for the first time later this year (always just been rear seat and thats it), will be interesting to see what I can get it down to before starting on the other stuff like alloy's rather than steel wheels, cage add etc
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
Go hard or go home!!!!
hypo-vw Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m
2,151 posts · joined May 2004 ·
the WPVW sports sedan is still swing-axle and normally aspirated with 2 webers ...and lapped in 1min 08 secs , I dont recall seeing any IRS beetles going quicker around Wakefield at the VW nationals supersprint last year ....😂mactaylor wrote:good point but why are all the fast vw times set by bj/irs!!!!!
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)