What planet do these VW mechanics/Engineers/Machinists come from.
I ordered a standard set of main bearings for an engine.
They turn up, low and behold, standard doesnt mean standard. Standard journal size but what size case.
So I order the replacement bearings, 1mm ext and std journal.
The bearings turn up, All excited i start a dummy up of the engine and bingo, you dont need 2 measurements, you need three, the case thickness for the thrust bearing.
If you machine the case to 1mm oversize, why on earth would you then machine the thrust surface and make that different.
So now I need, 1mm oversize case, standard journal and .5mm oversize thrust.
Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has those bearings in stock. Nope, So now I have to grab another set of bearings, 1mm oversize case .25 oversize journal and 1mm thrust.
Now machine down the thrust surface and then machine out the bearing journal diameter
clinker42 wrote:then machine out the bearing journal diameter
Gee, im going to make money on this job lol
Its ok to machine the thrust face of a bearing, but you should NEVER try and machine the ID/OD of the bearing.
Firstly, the bearings have a coating that you are going to be machining away, and secondly you will never duplicate the accuracy and tolerances the bearings have from the factory.
The list of things to check is endless, even if you are using all new parts.
I spent nearly all of the eighties working as an VW engine builder and even I learnt something new each day.
Craig Torrens wrote:just because you're clueless in rebuilding a VW motor, doesn't mean they are crap 😉
If you don't understand the set up send the case and crank to a specialist who will set the bottom end up for you and then it is only a matter of assembling it. You nwill be so far in front you won't believe it.good luck!😘
Sorry your having trouble with our little VW engne.......guess the 'how to' thread is out of the question..😂😂😂 Sorry Clinker, couldn't resist.
As Craig said, unless you have an extremely well equipped machine shop, I wouldn't recommend machining any bearing on the journal diameter. Get the correct bearings.
It's cases like this where a GOOD shop makes the difference.🙂
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
It is amazing that people make comments about ones mech eng skills and equipment when they have no idea what a person does for a living and what he has been doing for 20 years. For your info, I work in a shop that has everything needed not only to build engines but to make all the components for engines and cars. I would bet that its a hell of a lot better equipment that you guys have ever seen. Its amazing, I spend my days building $75,000 engines that have tolerances that are a heck of a lot tighter than you guys would ever think about.
Oh and if I sit the bearing in one of our HAAS cnc lathes, I think I can get the runout as good as factory or if not better, after all, our machines go to the 5th digit.
Also Dog, dont call me a dumbarse, I did read your post and then spent the next day phoning around australia for a set of bearings. Guess what, I couldnt find a set a set of bearings. Boris had a set with the thick thurst face but they where a 1.5mm oversize. Oh but I as a dumarse I should have realised that 1.5 over bearings will be a little sloppy in a 1mm over case.
Ps, for your info, the bearing is already machined out, Run out on the dial indicator was 0.0002. So i think that will be good enough. Also these bearings are not coated
clinker42 wrote:It is amazing that people make comments about ones mech eng skills and equipment when they have no idea what a person does for a living and what he has been doing for 20 years.
#1 Didn't measure the case properly (at all)
#2 Ordered the wrong bearings....twice.
#3 Not aware of the different thrust sizes
#4 Doesnt understand why the thrust surface on the case gets machined
I think this is a case of 'stick to what you know'. I build and repair Honda motors and gearboxes for a living, but would never pretend to be an expert with VW engines and gearboxes 🙂
Second set of bearings i ordered was 1 mm oversize and std and 1 mm oversize. i recieved 1mm/std/.5mm
Now for your info, Bearings do not have a lead/babbit coating. The one piece bearings are all solid alloy. Only the two piece centre bearing is coated. If you think Im wrong, go grab any of ya one piece bearings and scratch em to see if they are coated.
clinker42 wrote:Second set of bearings i ordered was 1 mm oversize and std and 1 mm oversize. i recieved 1mm/std/.5mm
I'd say the shop stuffed up there.
clinker42 wrote:Now for your info, Bearings do not have a lead/babbit coating. The one piece bearings are all solid alloy. Only the two piece centre bearing is coated. If you think Im wrong, go grab any of ya one piece bearings and scratch em to see if they are coated.
Sorry but IMO thats bullocks
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
So now I need, 1mm oversize case, standard journal and .5mm oversize thrust.
Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has those bearings in stock. Nope, So now I have to grab another set of bearings, 1mm oversize case .25 oversize journal and 1mm thrust.
WOW, look at that. The 1mm/std/.5mm bearings the shop sent you is what you needed in the first place 😂
I only built one type of engine, VW. They weren't all fully reconditioned, most were rebuilds sold as secondhand motors. In the eighties, if you drove a VW you would have been pidgeon holed as a "tight arse". I wouldn't mind a dollar for every owner who told me they bought a VW because they're supposed to go forever, and then blame me because they never had it serviced, or even checked the oil, and the engine stopped working. Hence, if parts were within acceptable tolerences, I would rebuild with new bearings, rings, exhaust valves, rear main seals and gaskets etc.
Fancey tools no matter how expensive, are a waste of money in the wrong hands. Any VW mechanic that has built enough engines doesnt even need a torque wrench, because it's all in the hands, you get to know what things should feel like! I could adjust tappets without a feeler gauge, because you can after time feel and hear by rocking the tappet what it should sound like. Imagine, a valve that has been pounded to a concave on the end. Using a feeler guage that tappet is always going to be too loose and noisey, unless you adjust it by feel. I'm not saying I built engines this way, but when you in the middle of the simpson desert and you drop a valve and every 4x4 driver is questioning you sanity, you would be amazed at what some people can do with a hammer (or axe) Screw driver (forged tent peg) and a shifting spanner.
As I said in the previous thread, you learn something new everyday, that is unless your ego is telling you, you know it all ready!
Happy to send you my contact # if you need assistance.
Craig Torrens wrote:just because you're clueless in rebuilding a VW motor, doesn't mean they are crap 😉
If you don't understand the set up send the case and crank to a specialist who will set the bottom end up for you and then it is only a matter of assembling it. You nwill be so far in front you won't believe it.good luck!😘
Sorry didn't mean to upset you,I was only trying to assist as you were obviously in trouble. Unfortunately I agree with most of the guys regarding VW engines,they are a specialist area and experience is the key. A lot of the guys trying to assist you have been doing these little engines for a long time the same as I have.We grew up rebuilding these from the old 36hp to the waterboxer and actually enjoyed the experiences as a lot of these engine have little peculiarities.I still send my cases & cranks out to machined,the shop then supplies bearings to suit. cheers
As I said previously good luck.
