dual batteries not charging

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Feb 2011, 6:41 pm

#824953

Can somebody please help me figure out this problem. I finally have my 76 on the road and somewhere in the past dual batteries were put in.

Neither batteries are charging. I've only been for a few drives and after 2 or 3 trips the battery is dead.

I appear to have the voltage regulator, a relay and what I think is an isolator? Does anyone know, or has diagrams, of how this should be wired, or even how to get it back to the original single battery.

here are some pics.

Any information would be a huge help.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Feb 2011, 8:25 pm

#824967

Hi
a few wires there seem to be disconnected....

the bottom pic is a FORD starter solenoid....

I don't like them.... OK in fords...
I'd give it to someone else.....

not sure why its being used...???

try disconnecting one battery earth lead....
so only one battery will be in use....

if that battery is no good try the other one...

You can also connect both batteries together + to + and
- to - so they are in parallel and still 12 volts...
if one battery is bad, it will cause problems...

You have an alternator regulator on the wall...
does the alternator lamp in the dash work???
if it doesn't the alternator won't charge the batteries...

LEE

someone has tampered with a lot of wires there...

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Feb 2011, 9:22 pm

#824975

Thanks. The disconnected wires don't seem to connect to anything, the wiring was a real mess with bits spliced in everywhere.

So start by getting rid of the solenoid.

Both batteries are good as far as i know. The alternator lamp is the battery symbol? No that doesn't come on.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Feb 2011, 10:15 pm

#824986

vwkj87 wrote:Thanks. The disconnected wires don't seem to connect to anything, the wiring was a real mess with bits spliced in everywhere.

So start by getting rid of the solenoid.

Both batteries are good as far as i know. The alternator lamp is the battery symbol? No that doesn't come on.

HI
Those Ford solenoids use a lot of power to operate....

the Alternator Lamp MUST be working for the alternator to charge..... battery symbol YES...
those alternator regulators are a pain too....

alternators with built in regulators are much better.

try replacing the bulb in the speedo....

otherwise, what I have done to a few beetles,. is add a dash light with two wires..... one goes to Power on the coil... +
the other goes to the regulator....
can't remember which one....??
and tape them to something in the engine bay...

the light should go on with the ignition and go out when the engine starts up which means the alternator is charging...

cheers

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Feb 2011, 10:59 pm

#824995

That starts to narrow it down. I'll pull out the solenoid and try to rewire it like original. I can worry about dual batteries later. Do you happen to know of the decent wiring diagram?

Thank you so much for your help.

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 5 Feb 2011, 11:11 pm

#825001

try this one

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Feb 2011, 11:29 pm

#825003

eep. Is there a simpler version?

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 5 Feb 2011, 11:49 pm

#825004

here is the key that goes with it
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bus-76-key-1.jpg
http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/bus-76-key-2.jpg
c is the alternator.
sorry i havent seen a simple diagram

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 5 Feb 2011, 11:54 pm

#825007

Thanks. It doesn't look so bad now.

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:23 am

#825027

The blue wire from the voltage regulator was spliced into a the yellow wire that went to that relay.

I reconnected that back to the T1 connector and now the alternator light is working. also reconnected a black wire that was disconnected with two bullet connectors. Don't know what it's for though.

I've been told if it's charging properly you can take the battery terminal off the battery and it'll keep running. but the engine still died.

Any thoughts?

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:25 am

#825028

put a multi meter across the battery to test it with the engine running, should be about 13-14v there.

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:27 am

#825029

there is, but it's the same when the engine's off.

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:31 am

#825031

Also alternator light stays on.

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:33 am

#825032

all the time even if the engine is running? sounds like your regulator has died

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 9:46 am

#825035

Yes all the time the ignition is on. Can i test the regulator?

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 10:14 am

#825042

Are Beetle regulators interchangeable?

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 6 Feb 2011, 2:42 pm

#825072

Only if its for an alternator....

Generator voltage regulators are not the same....

the regulator for the alternators are a pain....

probably need to buy two.....

as they can blow at any time....

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Feb 2011, 3:38 pm

#825083

What a load of crap, the fail rate of generator regulators is far higher than alternator regs.
Most are original to the cars

68AutoBug wrote:alternators with built in regulators are much better.

Till they die, which most do cos they're all from china these days and you have to replace the entire alternator rather than a $30 regulator.

Most people don't bother replacing internal regs even though it's possible.

That old Ford solenoid is what is doing the switching between batteries, so the system is not going to work without it.

It keeps the leisure battery seperate when the engines not running so it can be flattened without flattening the main battery then it's linked into the system via the solenoid once the engines started so it can be charged back up.

I had the same setup for my audio system.

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 4:20 pm

#825088

First the light stayed on on the time the ignition was, and the voltage didn't change on the battery.

After removing all the extra stuff and getting the wires in the correct place, the light went out when engine was running. and the battery was charging.

However after a half hour run the battery boiled.

New Regulator?

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 6 Feb 2011, 4:25 pm

#825092

id say reg in that conditions. nave you got a good auto elect around your area as id take the alternator to them and get them to test it as it shouldnt of boiled the battery.

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 6 Feb 2011, 6:29 pm

#825114

barls wrote:id say reg in that conditions. nave you got a good auto elect around your area as id take the alternator to them and get them to test it as it shouldnt of boiled the battery.

Sorry to dig in but I notice the reg has individual wires,usually a plug,the potential is one of the wires is on the wrong terminal.The auto electrician is a good choice.

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 9 Feb 2011, 8:42 pm

#825607

grumble wrote:
barls wrote:id say reg in that conditions. nave you got a good auto elect around your area as id take the alternator to them and get them to test it as it shouldnt of boiled the battery.
Sorry to dig in but I notice the reg has individual wires,usually a plug,the potential is one of the wires is on the wrong terminal.The auto electrician is a good choice.

Went to 4 auto electricians and repco and none had one, but finally got one from a vw shop. He confirmed which pins were which.

Car started. Alternator light stayed on, battery read 14V, and engine made a clicking noise (???).

Turned it off battery read 12.6V. Thinking it's ok I tried to start it again but starter kept clicking and wouldn't start.

vwkj87 Seriously Crusin Dubber

103 posts · joined Oct 2008 · 11 Feb 2011, 3:36 pm

#825834

Also i charged the battery last night, it's a good charger and it said the battery was good. tested it and it read 12.6V. Put it in the car and tried to start it and it barely turned over and went dead, like a flat battery.

groovy Seriously Crusin Dubber

101 posts · joined Nov 2009 · 12 Feb 2011, 10:47 pm

#826071

dual battry get a redarc smart start solenoid from any 4 wheel drive shop there about $150 very ezy to wire up
get rid of the old solenoid you have in your car now and put it back to standed
do you have a good starter motor,have you tryed a load test on batterys,