Proof of Age

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 10 Feb 2011, 12:29 am

#825637

My daughter bought a Beetle last year (thanks for all the advice that was given at the time) which was imported to the UK from Australia. The body is a 1965 but there was conflicting evidence about the age of the chassis, so I've now bought a mint 1965 Australian chassis on which we'll put the body. I'm wondering if there's any way I can get proof of age or history from an Australian VW club so that I can register the new chassis with an age related plate in the UK. Unfortunately the chassis didn't come with any import documentation so I need proof of age in order to register the car and I don't think that VW Germany covers Australian built cars. The chassis number is 195622616.
Thanks, Clive

Update:
Since posting I've searched the forum and have found that no historical records are available. Does anyone know if it would be possible to at least have the chassis date verified by a VW club? I'd be happy to pay costs etc.

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 10 Feb 2011, 5:38 pm

#825703

If it is a 1965 Australian Chassis with chassis number is 195622616, then it will be registered as

1965 with chassis number 195622616

The body is irrelevant.

Registration office needs numbers. Chassis, engine and previous registration numbers, and proof of ownership.

Chassis number is broken down

1 is Type 1
9 is Australia
5 is 1965
the rest is number

I think I am right, but am always open to be proved wrong.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 Feb 2011, 7:37 am

#825788

Yes, Hellbus' information is spot on.

No Australian VW manufacturing records from the 1960s still exist; they were thrown out when manufacturing ended in 1968, and another cleanout followed in 1976 when Nissan bought the factory. There have also been changes to the Australian VW importers in 1987, 1989, 1992 and 2001 so it's not surprising that these records don't exist.

In NSW at least, the RTA have no old registration records as anything before 1989 has been destroyed.

You could try getting a VW 'birth certificate' from the Wolfsburg Museum but it will cost you 35 Euro. There's also no guarantee that it will produce anything useful as the Australian '9' digit may not be recognised and they may respond with 'invalid number'. Here's the link if you'd like to try:

http://automuseum.volkswagen.de/index.php?id=12&L=1

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 11 Feb 2011, 9:58 am

#825803

Thanks for your replies helbus & Phil, most helpful. I'm going to visit my local DVLA office next week to ask if they'll just accept proof of ownership and some sort of document that states that the chassis number 195 was manufactured in 1965. I've scoured the web and, from what I've found, it seems that you're spot on about the Wolfsburg Museum Phil, anything starting with 19 will get a response of 'invalid number' so it would be six weeks waiting and 35 Euro wasted.

Although I know the chassis was produced in 1965 I'm struggling to find any documentation on the web that supports this so I'm hoping that a VW club in Australia can supply a supporting letter saying something like 'we can verify that the chassis number 195622616 was manufactured in Australia in 1965'. Does anyone know of a club that might be willing to do this?

ps
Thanks for all the help and advice you gave me when we were buying the Beetle Phil, it was much appreciated. The car's running well, but as we want to do a full restoration next year I'd like to take the opportunity to get rid of that 'suspect' chassis and I'd rather replace it with an Australian chassis rather than a European one. And to think I thought the only headache would be buying the car!

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 11 Feb 2011, 2:01 pm

#825823

We are in the process of redesigning the Club Veedub Sydney website - http://www.clubvw.org.au/ - and it WILL eventually have a comprehensive chassis / VIN / engine code reference section. But it isn't finished yet sorry! There IS the Australian VW history section that you can point to, although it doesn't refer to '9' numbers. I'm not sure if a club letter will be any assistance but I'll ask at out next meeting on Thursday.

In the meantime, it's the THIRD digit that tells the year. It really doesn't matter if the second digit is 1 or 9; your third digit is 5 regardless. Most good workshop manuals / reference books contain chassis number lists along those lines; try going to your regional library and gave a look for some Beetle manuals / books (look under 629 in the Dewey system). I don't have the Haynes manual with me so I don't know if it has such a list. But if it does, and you borrow it and take the manual along with you to the DVLA, showing that the THIRD DIGIT is the year, you might be OK.

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 11 Feb 2011, 11:21 pm

#825904

Thanks for that Phil, I'll get myself down to the library and see what I can find. I've spoken with someone who said they managed to register a classic bike with just proof of ownership and a letter from an owners club verifying date of manufacture so I'd be most grateful if you could ask at your next club meeting if they could do that for me. I'm paying a visit to the DVLA next Tuesday so I'll post an update on the outcome.
Cheers, Clive

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 14 Feb 2011, 1:27 am

#826287

Had a bit of good news today - We went to collect the chassis (which is in remarkable condition) and the seller still had the original Australian number plate, which was 506 GWW Queensland. With that and proof of ownership (which I have) and a supporting letter from an Australian club I should be able to register it. I don't suppose anyone recognizes the number? Slim chance but worth asking.

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 26 Feb 2011, 9:34 pm

#828395

Phil74Camper wrote:We are in the process of redesigning the Club Veedub Sydney website - http://www.clubvw.org.au/ - and it WILL eventually have a comprehensive chassis / VIN / engine code reference section. But it isn't finished yet sorry! There IS the Australian VW history section that you can point to, although it doesn't refer to '9' numbers. I'm not sure if a club letter will be any assistance but I'll ask at out next meeting on Thursday.

In the meantime, it's the THIRD digit that tells the year. It really doesn't matter if the second digit is 1 or 9; your third digit is 5 regardless. Most good workshop manuals / reference books contain chassis number lists along those lines; try going to your regional library and gave a look for some Beetle manuals / books (look under 629 in the Dewey system). I don't have the Haynes manual with me so I don't know if it has such a list. But if it does, and you borrow it and take the manual along with you to the DVLA, showing that the THIRD DIGIT is the year, you might be OK.

I've checked in my Haynes manual but it doesn't give any reference. However, the DVLA will accept a letter from the UK VW Historical Club as proof of age and they are happy to provide this if I can get a letter from an Australian club - I've sent you a PM Phil.

lou0060 Wolfsburg Wizard

568 posts · joined Dec 2010 · 26 Feb 2011, 10:03 pm

#828405

from some of my old vw workshop manuals I found that your chassis was built between Dec 1964 and july 1965. note that year models changed in August of each year so cars built from August 1964 thru to 30 Sept 65 were classed as 65 models.

sounds like you need to visit another DVLA office as the one you have been going to seems pretty anal..... the world over vw third digit signified the year the car was designated so can't understand why they need a letter from some un-authorised club in Australia????? go figure....

1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 👍
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 🥲
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 😁
1960 beetle - old school low & slow 😏

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 27 Feb 2011, 1:33 am

#828419

lou0060 wrote:from some of my old vw workshop manuals I found that your chassis was built between Dec 1964 and july 1965. note that year models changed in August of each year so cars built from August 1964 thru to 30 Sept 65 were classed as 65 models.

sounds like you need to visit another DVLA office as the one you have been going to seems pretty anal..... the world over vw third digit signified the year the car was designated so can't understand why they need a letter from some un-authorised club in Australia????? go figure....

Thanks for the info. A 1964 would be even better than a 1965 certificate - but I won't push my luck on that! Ufortunately my Haynes manual doesn't give any reference to build dates, it just says where to find the chassis number.I've been to my local library but there's nothing there and I've spent literally hours searching the web for written confirmation but with no success.

The DVLA office I visited was the headquarters in Swansea. The problem I've been getting is that they'll accept a Birth Certificate from the VW Museum but ,as you probably know, they can't supply a certificate for an Australian built Beetle because they don't have any records for them. All they'll provide is a letter saying "Date of manufacture not known". I know it's stupid, because everyone who knows anything knows that my chassis number belongs to a 1965 car. But you know what government offices are like, they won't do anything without officially recognized documents. The VW Historical club knows that the chassis is a 1965 but they won't give me a certificate (which the DVLA will accept) unless I can provide a back-up letter from an Australian club. It's really frustrating because everyone seems to accept the date of manufacture but no-one is willing to commit.

Seeing as the VW Historical Club (which the DVLA recognizes) will give me a certificate on receipt of confirmation from an un-authorized Australian club, such letter would be the answer to my problem - which is driving me nuts!

amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 27 Feb 2011, 9:30 pm

#828598

you're doing it all wrong, trying to do it the honest way. Make your own "official" letter up.

My mechanic mate had a problem with his brake tester which put some stupid G figures on the slip. Knowing the customer was going straight to the registry he gave them a call to let them know someone was coming with a dodgy slip. They said they didnt care what was on it so long as it was attached.

So long as they can tick the boxes they need to tick they dont give a rats.

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 27 Feb 2011, 10:13 pm

#828611

I've already thought of that, lol. The trouble is it only takes one jobsworth to check and I'd be sunk. Before registering the car it has to have a valid MOT to prove the car's roadworthy. I couldn't afford the expense or heartache of going through a full restoration only to be told I can't register it.

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Feb 2011, 7:00 am

#828627

Hi, yes I'll arrange for a Club Veedub Sydney letter for you via email - just give me a couple of days to organise it.

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Feb 2011, 8:38 am

#828650

Hi

I have this page from a warranty book from almost that period, it wont help but it does back up what everyone has been saying.

Is there any local publications that list VWA chassis number? Like the beautiful one that was done a few years ago, cant remeber the name of it, large coffee table sale book that came in a VW parts style wrapper.

Steve

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designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 28 Feb 2011, 9:41 am

#828655

Phil74Camper wrote:Hi, yes I'll arrange for a Club Veedub Sydney letter for you via email - just give me a couple of days to organise it.

Thanks Phil,
That's brilliant. There's no rush, it's just not knowing that's driving me wild - just so long as it doesn't drive me to drink, lol. Honestly, I'm really grateful, it means we can at least make plans and start getting things together as and when we see them.
Thanks again, Clive

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 28 Feb 2011, 9:43 am

#828657

1303Steve wrote:Hi

I have this page from a warranty book from almost that period, it wont help but it does back up what everyone has been saying.

Is there any local publications that list VWA chassis number? Like the beautiful one that was done a few years ago, cant remeber the name of it, large coffee table sale book that came in a VW parts style wrapper.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Thanks for showing that - it could come in very useful ....
Cheers, Clive

Phil74Camper Head in the Clouds

2,703 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 28 Feb 2011, 11:47 am

#828681

Hi Steve,

No, I don't think the Rod & Lloyd Davies book (VW in Australia The Forgotten Story) has reference pages. My book didn't either!

I have the reference pages ready for the club website but I don't know whether Aaron is ready to expand it just yet. Probably get the Nationals out of the way first.

lou0060 Wolfsburg Wizard

568 posts · joined Dec 2010 · 5 Mar 2011, 7:28 pm

#829519

one other idea. All Beetles of that era had the month and year of manufacture stamped on the back of the speedo and also on the rims. It might be worth checking as generally the speedo's seem to stay in the car more so than the wheels. this will add to your pieces of evidence. Also sent you pm re the vw manual.

1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 👍
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 🥲
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief 😁
1960 beetle - old school low & slow 😏

designergraphics Casual Dubber

35 posts · joined Jul 2010 · 6 Mar 2011, 6:57 am

#829543

Thanks Lou, I've sent you a PM. I'd been told about the speedo and wheels when I started the thread about buying the car - all things I did'nt know about!
Cheers, Clive