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IDAs on 1916 (apologies to IDAs. It was the MSDs fault)?

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fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#852057
I recently swapped the 44IDFs for 48IDAs on short manifolds. The car goes about the same but is way cooler now (I'm talking style not engine temp).

The trouble is it doesn't like to restart. It starts first go when cold. Easy. But when the car has been running for just a minute to a long drive it won't restart. It doesn't even half fire, pop or attempt to start. It's as if there's no spark or as if it's flooded. I have to let it sit for about 3 minutes and then it will start

It never did this with the IDFs.

The 44IDFs had 36 vents while the IDAs have 37 vents.
The 44IDFs required 135 mains the IDAs need 140s.
I had 55 idles in both. Maybe the IDAs need 60s?

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

CT
esratrams

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#852065
thats bizarre.......i can understand when its hot, but not after only a minute !


Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#852067
Or possibly 50 idle's CT ???

Not even a pop makes me think rich rather than lean.

Especially since you say it starts easy when cold... my engines with Weber's have always been a pain to start cold, but restart just fine when hot.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#852068
I can't understand it either. After a long drive I put my hand on the carb and it was onlly warm. I touched the manifold and I could hold my hand on it. So the fuel isn't boiling or getting a vapour lock.

I'm interested in getting bigger idles on the principle that a hot engine needs more fuel. It was lean down low when I was running the 135 mains. The 140s solved that.

Hmmmmmmmmmm
esratrams

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#852069
Oh and hot engines normally need less fuel !!!

That's why you have choke's on carbs (that block off air, so hence give more fuel) and Temp Correction tables on EFI that add in fuel when cold.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#852074
Sides wrote:Or possibly 50 idle's CT ???

Not even a pop makes me think rich rather than lean.

Especially since you say it starts easy when cold... my engines with Weber's have always been a pain to start cold, but restart just fine when hot.
Good points Sides


Hows it run, any flat spots off idle?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#852078
It had a stumble taking off from the lights when I used 135 mains and the idle mixtures wound in a bit more. I fixed it with 140 mains (the plugs were a tad white) and half a turn out on the idle mixtures.

I might try some extreme mixture adjustments tomorrow.

I don't have any other IDA idle jets at the moment.

Cheers gents.
esratrams

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#852080
Set your idle mixture on the rich side of the sweet window and see how the 'stumble' reacts, also useable info is how far out on average are the mixture screws and performance best nearest starting or after good warmup.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#852109
Are the float levels correct? If too high, that can happen.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#852189
fullnoise wrote:It had a stumble taking off from the lights when I used 135 mains and the idle mixtures wound in a bit more. I fixed it with 140 mains (the plugs were a tad white) and half a turn out on the idle mixtures.

I might try some extreme mixture adjustments tomorrow.

I don't have any other IDA idle jets at the moment.

Cheers gents.
I,ve got shit loads of idles and main jets up here if you need to experiment CT.

Cheers Col

johny rotten Officially Full-On Dubber

366 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#852200
IDA's like low fuel pressure below 3psi.

You didn't say what size air correction jets you are using.
What does it idle like ? Does the engine stall after a while if you it leave idling ?
Also what size are the idle jet holders or idle air jets ?

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#852294
I made up a bracket to position the needle and seat where it would be if the carb top was on. Then I filled the float bowl up with fuel to get the float to it's maximum height. Then I made up a little plastic measure for the float with 5.0mm and 3.5mm measures.







I think the floats were a bit high at about 6 mm and 6.5 mm when they should've been at 5.5. I've reset them to about 4mm. Unfortunately I couldn't test this out because the battery was flat. The car's idiot owner left the lights on.

I originally set up the malpassi fuel regulator at 2 psi. But that was years ago so it wouldn't hurt to recheck it.

Thanks for the suggestions gents.

Col, can you send me some 60 idles and 145 mains to try please?

Cheers CT
esratrams

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#852340
Hi CT

Are the accelerator pump nozzles spraying?

Steve

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#852356
have you checked out the spark when it wont start?........you mentioned it, but you did do the check yeah?

i had the same symptoms with a die-ing coil

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#852367
Hi

Good point Damo.

It could be number of things.

Your ignition switch could have high resistance when it gets hot, check to see if you have battery voltage at the coil at rest with the ignition and when cranking.

You could try fitting relay in the ignition circuit.

Steve

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#852533
fullnoise wrote:I have to let it sit for about 3 minutes and then it will start
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
CT
Just carry a good book in the car for those times when u have 3 minutes up your sleeve, or alternatively, midmount your engine, it seems to solve all problems. Apparently.

jak

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#852807
Jak Rizzo wrote:
fullnoise wrote:I have to let it sit for about 3 minutes and then it will start
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
CT
Just carry a good book in the car for those times when u have 3 minutes up your sleeve, or alternatively, midmount your engine, it seems to solve all problems. Apparently.

jak

😂😂.


HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#852924
Well, CT........did you find the problem? If so, what was it?
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#852941
Yeah, CT's been a bit quiet on the solution hey... maybe he's busy working on Jak's "just mid mount it" fix ???
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#853070
Nah, he's a away, he thinks that because the IDA's came off a V8 that they are just carsick from travelling backwards & need a 3 minute breather every time it's turned off.

Jak

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#853158
Jak Rizzo wrote:Nah, he's a away, he thinks that because the IDA's came off a V8 that they are just carsick from travelling backwards & need a 3 minute breather every time it's turned off.

Jak
😂😂
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#853228
And the Oscar goes to.............................Daimo.

No spark is the correct answer.

The MSD is cactus, caput, buggered and on the fritz.

There was no spark so I cracked open the MSD manual and got to point number 7 in the diagnostics which basically says it's fecked.

I rewired it as standard and it starts in a split second. Problem solved.

Yay, I thought. After the broken oil cooler, buggered clutch bearing, oil line dramas, dead battery, broken battery charger, and now MSD I can finally make it to a track day on my third attempt.

The car drove faultlessly out of the garage at 10pm tonight. Then up the street on 2 cylinders.

I know when I'm beaten 🙁

Thanks everyone for you suggestions. What's a good ignition system. So far I've been through the Jaycar CDI kit (twice) and a MSD. Maybe it's the plate in my head which destroys electronics. My computer constantly plays up and I throw out a lot of electronic gadgets which don't seem to want to live anymore after I've owned them for a while.

I honestly feel like pushing my beetle into Pittwater to see if it floats.

Fed up dot com
esratrams

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#853229
i don't know shiz.......and don't ever forget that!

you nut bag.......there is a dam here i can throw it in for you.....hell i will even come and pic it up and push it in 😂...........drive it here and i could take that metal plate out of ya head???? no guarantees 😂 😂

so where you at now............you got it running fine but then fell back onto 2 up the street?

mid mount or rex conversion is the answer!

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#853232
Well the bright side is, it's easy to start....

guess she's down on power on 2 cylinders though !!!!! 👎👎
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#853233
It's purring like rocks through a blender.

Tempting Daimo if you didn't live so far away.
esratrams

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#853234
BROKEN you think or back to chasing air, fuel, spark?

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#853237
I think the plugs are sooty or the gap is too big for the std ign.

A new CDI is probably the best place to start.

I'm going to have to look at the floats again. They were stopping at the needle body not at the point at which they'd stop during normal operation. So they're set a bit too low.

I've received some valuable advice via PM.

More tinkering.
esratrams

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#853241
race cars hey......🥲.....poor neglected thing just wants some luvin

keep us informed....

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#853335
fullnoise wrote:I think the plugs are sooty or the gap is too big for the std ign.

A new CDI is probably the best place to start.

I'm going to have to look at the floats again. They were stopping at the needle body not at the point at which they'd stop during normal operation. So they're set a bit too low.

I've received some valuable advice via PM.

More tinkering.
The MSD system was probably masking the fact you have wet fouled plugs.
Now your using a standard less powerfull ignition system it won,t fire the fouled plugs.
Leave it in the garage and come up to Ringwood next Sunday, with Barb, i could use a pit crew or two.

Cheers Col

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#853336
I couldn't let it rest.

Running on 2 cylinders, it's more likely to be fuel related. I looked down the carbs and 1/2 side accelerator pumps weren't squirting. What now?

The float bowl was empty. Maybe the new needle and seat was stuck or maybe the float level was totally wrong.

I've now learned to fill the fuel bowls via the needle and seat to get the proper closed point in the needle and seat (thanks Henry) and the exat operating fuel level and float height above the carb body. Now I realise how much the needle moves making my previous measurements way out.

The good news is that it now starts easily and runs on 4 cylinders. It idles beautifully. I still have to do the 3/4 side float height again applying my new found wisdom.

I did miss another track day today. Gremlines 3, me 0.
esratrams