Disc brakes

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 10 Oct 2011, 9:53 pm

#866353

Hello people,
I'am new to the VW scene in tassi (the place to be), i purchased my first VW a couple of weeks ago, and it has come to the time to start working on it.

Okay, so the plan is to go to disc brakes for my 1970 beetle. The question to you is what would you reccommend, either from personal experience or from knowledge etc.
My beetle is currently at stock height and i am currently looking at lowering it 2-3 inchs and whilst doing so, upgrade the brakes at the same time. Thus killing a few birds with the one stone. I like the idea of drop spindles, beam and sway bar being done together sort of thing. This will enable me to tune the ride height to desired levels.
The plan down the track is a pobjoy engine...

I have seem to take a liking to the stuff that George has and his kits/packages:
https://www.classicveedub.com.au/cvd_new/part_detail.aspx?parts_id=15676
and https://www.classicveedub.com.au/cvd_new/part_detail.aspx?parts_id=16740

So, my question to you knowledgable people is: What are your thoughts/opinions in regards to the braking setup that would be ideal? Are using drop spindles ideal with a beam and narrow sway bar ideal and is there anything i have forgotten in regards to lowering the bug? Finally, the master cylinder, i have no real idea how to source one or what to look for other then being a duel one....

Any thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated.

Jeremy

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 10 Oct 2011, 11:37 pm

#866373

Does Your beetle have front disc brakes??

and it should have a dual master cylinder....

dropped spindles are the way to go...

I don't personally like narrowed beams...
but it depends on how low the front end is...

cheers

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 11 Oct 2011, 7:31 am

#866388

Thanks for the reply Lee,
Yes, just the stock front brakes still. Will this duel MC beable to handle the increase in pressure required? I'm just interested, but what are your reasons for not personally liking narrowed beams (i'd look at 2inch narrowed), you don't have to answer if you don't want. Front end and rear is stock ride height.

Are those kits that i mentioned suited for what i require? Is what are in those kits all that i require?

I have limited experience, but am more then willing to have a go and learn myself.

Jeremy

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 11 Oct 2011, 8:37 am

#866396

thebullfrog wrote:I like the idea of drop spindles, beam and sway bar being done together sort of thing. This will enable me to tune the ride height to desired levels.

There's no adjustment at all with drop spindles.
THey just drop 2.5" and thats it.
Too low?...too bad
not low enough... too bad

That's what sux about dropped spindles.

you get ful adjustablilty with sway aways adjusters.
I had a pair on my 70 bug dropped about 4" and the ride was pretty good for a tractor front end.

Just be aware there's been alot of people bitching about the quality of Empi rear disc kits.
Calipers leave a bit to be desired.

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 11 Oct 2011, 9:07 am

#866402

Is lowering 4inch's still practical if you get me, life driving around the city, going over speed bummps etc.

In regards to sway away adjusters, volks sell the "Lowered Ball Joint Beam W/ Ratchet Style Adjusters" is that a better option in regards to lowering it with the spindles as well. As you get the 2.5 inch's, plus being able to adjust more.

Are you able to reccomend products other then the EMPI kits then? Are the complaints in regards to disks cracking or other issues?

EDIT: I looked at some AirKewld products and notivced that they have a aus distributer ( DAS Resto Haus ) in QLD, has anyone had experience with these products.

I've also been searching the EMPI issues, sounds like quality control is in order.

My mind is a mess in what to do in regards to brakes now.

Jeremy

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 11 Oct 2011, 11:55 am

#866423

The choices can be daunting.

As long as you're mindful you're driving a lowered car 4" is fine, straddling speed bumps and gutters is easy to get the hang of.

Mine is lowered more than that and I live on a farm with rutted dirt roads, big rocks and the occasional bunyip or drop bear and havn't damaged the low hanging subi sump or waterlines yet.

Main problems with the brakes are the caliper bracket flexing alot and the single piston calipers are wearing the inside pad out.

Brakes are something you can't really skimp on cos it's a case of you get what you pay for.

I've got volksconversions rear discs on mine, they're not cheap (currently about $880ish) but John is a perfectionist just fit and forget.

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 11 Oct 2011, 1:03 pm

#866431

My other car has a lowest point of around 70mm...... and its not the most practicle thing, but i am used to it know and its fine, i diagional across speedhumps etc etc already. I assume you had to do a rear conversion for yours? Did you upgrade the fronts as well? Did you buy yours as a kit?

Cost doesn't phase me to a degree ($2000ish max for front and rear) when speaking about brakes as it is one of those things and as you said, you can't skimp on them.

I will be getting a quote for new front disc's from my local shop today, as they had to speak to volkmod (http://www.volks-mod.com.au/) in regards to front discs.

EDIT: How does fitting brakes that volkconversions sell work in conjuction with the local laws. In tasmania we come on vbs 14 (or vsb14 or something) which states that we need to have a modification plate for brake and master cylinder upgrades (along with engine, chassis modifications etc etc)

I think dropping volkconversions an email might be worth my time.

Jeremy

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 11 Oct 2011, 8:59 pm

#866528

You would be better off calling him.

I've got his rear disc kit and my front is stock ATE calipers but with bigger cross drilled type 3 discs.

It's a well balanced layout, you don't want to over brake the front of these cars with so much weight in the back.

By rights any brake mods should be engineer certified.
bout the only time you can get away without is putting factory discs on a later 4 stud 1300 drum bugs as its all OEM parts.

waveman1500 Also rides a Honda

1,346 posts · joined Dec 2009 · 11 Oct 2011, 9:16 pm

#866535

I'm sorry to go against the grain of "you can't have enough brakes", but what is wrong with the stock brakes? With factory discs and fairly big rear drums you already have a fairly effective braking system there, certainly much better than any of the earlier bugs. Are you building up an engine for big power? I would've thought that as long as you're not doing circuit racing, the standard brakes are absolutely fine. Just make sure that you've got everything in good condition and properly adjusted and it will stop pretty hard.

1972 VW S-Bug - For Sale!
1968-onwards Beetle panels and glass for sale

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 11 Oct 2011, 9:52 pm

#866540

thebullfrog wrote:The plan down the track is a pobjoy engine...

Nothingwrong with going against the grain, avoids becoming a sheep. But yes, i am slowly building up to bigger power. Not crazy amounts, but bigger.

Joel- I''ll give him a buzz during opening hours then.

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 11 Oct 2011, 10:25 pm

#866550

waveman1500 wrote:I'm sorry to go against the grain of "you can't have enough brakes", but what is wrong with the stock brakes? With factory discs and fairly big rear drums you already have a fairly effective braking system there, certainly much better than any of the earlier bugs. Are you building up an engine for big power? I would've thought that as long as you're not doing circuit racing, the standard brakes are absolutely fine. Just make sure that you've got everything in good condition and properly adjusted and it will stop pretty hard.

It's nothing to do with how much power you're packing, you could drive around all day with a 2332 turbo and single circuit wide 5 drums and probably be ok but the reality is it's the other cars that are the problem.

You're right the stock system when all up to scratch was excellent in it's time 40 years ago but appalling by todays standards but if you're driving daily then you need to be able to stop as well as todays modern cars with 4 wheel power assisted discs and ABS.

Once you've experienced a VW with 4 wheel discs you will never want to go back to drums again.

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 12 Oct 2011, 7:33 am

#866580

Thats it, and me being a P plater, cars just love to dash in and around me. I've had one close call of slamming on the brakes, and frankly i don't like it. Hence the reason for better braking system, to stop quickly...when need be.

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 12 Oct 2011, 2:14 pm

#866635

what about Glenn's brake kit. it uses Holden and Ford brake parts and you know how well they brake 👍

ADR approved as well 😁

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

thebullfrog Seriously Crusin Dubber

163 posts · joined Sep 2011 · 12 Oct 2011, 3:30 pm

#866646

Who is this Glen chap? Contact details? ADR is appealing

Before the brakes are put on i recquire the following infomation on whatever option i choose for the modicication application form.......

Master cylinder: Make/model________________/___________single/dual circuit. Bore size______________________
Front brakes Make/model __________________/_________________ Type: disc/drum________________________
Calliper model/size or wheel cylinder diameter ______________________________________________

Rear brakes
Make/model __________________/_________________Type: disc/drum________________________
Calliper model/size or wheel cylinder diameter _____________________________________________

Handbrake
Make/model _______________/_______________ acting on front/rear wheels/tailshaft/transmission

Operating mechanism: mechanical/other _________________________________________________

As said whatever i settle with, i will need a hand filling in this form. haha

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 12 Oct 2011, 4:11 pm

#866653

Glenn aka VWCOOL. he will be on the member list somewhere.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 12 Oct 2011, 4:12 pm

#866654

or this thread.

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=68055&page=1

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE