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Gauges - What to do?

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Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#870856
Hi All,

I'm about to get a new engine put in, so it's time to have a few more gauges than standard.

I have an L Bug, so eventually I'm going to do some mods to the plastic dash to make them all fit better, but for the time being it will be a bodge job. So basically I'm not cutting metal, or going for a classic look. Realistically it's a GL lite.

The plan is:
* Speedo
* Fuel
* Tacho
* Oil Pressure
* Oil Temp

Whilst it makes a certain amount of sense to keep the standard speedo/fuel guage, my speedo still tends to wave at me, even though it's been properly lubed. I've been wondering what other options there are to measure the speed (perhaps electronically). I need to move the speedo down anyway, because I can't see what speed I'm doing because of the smaller diameter steering wheel. 🤓

Any brands / series that are recommended? Are VDO any good any more? Any suppliers you'd recommend? Any other gauges I should have?

Thanks in anticipation for the hints and tips!

Craig
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#870858
there are a few of those on here

Joel and Jeff both have 1303s beetles with gauges etc...

some people even use porsche gauges...

VDO are OK..

Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Aussie Dubbin Fahrvergnugen

895 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·

#870861
An electronic speedo conversion can be expensive because of the cable to pulse converter. Have you tried a different cable and a different speedo, would be the cheapest conversion. VDO have to be the best option but be ready for $$$$$
'68 BUG build(Racing)
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69Baja
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=88798
Manx(MaxFX)
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=88799&page=1#pid826884

waltermitty Legend when my beer goggles are on

1,993 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#870867
Porsche . Mitchell
23 windows ...8 too many!

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#870881
I use Speedhut Items in my Manxter and they are awesome, fully calibratable, GPS Speedo, high and low warning lights to set on everything, come with all senders etc and you can get them with Custom Faces. They even come with dimer switch and gauge looms.

They even have a limited life time warranty on most parts.

I have had them in for just over 1000km now and it great knowing the speedo is accurate. The speedo also has a heap of other nice features such as :

GPS Speedometer


Odometer and Resettable trip

5 Htz update for fast needle response and accuracy

Display 0-60 Time and distance in feet.

Display 1/4 mile time and speed.

Show elevation

Peak Recall max speed during run

Current direction heading

Accurate GPS Clock

Current Speed in LCD

Hot start satellite acquisition allows GPS speedo to function within 2-3 seconds of power up


Easy hook up- requires only power, ground and lighting and GPS accurately displays speed. included 15' long antenna cord to route antenna to convenient location in corner of dash.

We carry some in stock but most we custom order so we can offer custom graphics, at under $1k a set and local Aussie Warranty they beat the pants off VDO. - http://www.meyersmanx.com.au/Gauge-Set-6-Piece-GPS-Revolution-P82.aspx

Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#870906
Hi Craig

The speedo is a pain in L bugs.

Not sure if you remember but this is what I did with Davids bug.

Fitted Spa digital speedo in the stock speedo hole and I moved the light switch over to the left so that I could fit gauges on the right of the steering wheel.

I also have Spa speedo tacho combo in my other bug, but then you need to fit a fuel gauge. Both the Spa speedos feature,
Acceleration timer
Standing 1/4 mile timer
Built in odometer
Built in trip meter
Maximum speed recall
Adjustable backlit lcd display
Programmable button function.
Readout selectable for mph or kmh
Calibrates to any tyre circumference

The speedo is $236 us or the tacho speedo combo is $375 us http://www.spatechnique.com/product_pages/index.cfm

I'm using VDO for the rest of the gauges.

Steve

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vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#870928
I just built my own.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#870930
I like the Autometer gauges in my car, but make sure you buy the deg C gauge and not the deg F !!


cam070 Custom Title Time!

1,332 posts · joined Jul 2009 ·

#870951
What's the deal with the GPS speedos if you are going through a tunnel? I know my GPS nav craps out in tunnels as it ca't see a satellite. How will a GPS speedo be any different?

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#870977
Hi

My GPS gets flaky around tall buildings (Sydney CBD), it would not be good if a speedo did the same thing.

Steve

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#870985
Thanks everyone for your input,

The GPS speedo is very tempting, but I do worry about building shadow, but even more so about tunnels, especially given every tunnel in Sydney seems to have a speed camera in it. Maybe as a secondary?

Steve I was trying to remember what you had done, thanks for the explanation.

Is there enough room behind the dash to drop the speedo so that it almost sits on the steering column?

One of things I was thinking is how I can change the speedo calibration based on tyre size.

Time for some more web searching.

I know Rocket industries stock a lot of them, but is there anywhere else in Sydney?

Second hand Porsche sounds nice, but I can't afford to rejig the entire dash just at the moment, and I worry about having to get them reconditioned.

Thanks
Craig
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#871005
shouldn't a Porsche speedo just drop into a beetle?


I sold a 914 tacho last year and it was the exact diameter as a beetle speedo.

So it shouldn't be that hard to find a suitable Porsche speedo?

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#871009
A bit more searching, and I think adding something like one of these to the car might be the solution:

http://www.hummingbirdelectronics.com.au/standard_dig_speedo.html?gclid=CPDKkOeKpqwCFcYkpAodelW41w

http://www.bogaard.com.au/Products/DigitalSpeedos.aspx

That way I can retain the regular speedo, but sit this below it (where I can actually see it), so the only time I have to reply on the normal speedo is in tunnels etc.

Time to keep searching!
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#871026
Craig S wrote:Is there enough room behind the dash to drop the speedo so that it almost sits on the steering column?
That's one thing I've toyed with the idea of but there's a few hitches.

I'll put up some pics later of the dash I have dissected for a custom project which shows the problem.

The metal around the speedo that it sits in is a major strength part of the dash which joins the top and bottom section of the dash on the drivers side.
chopping that out will probably cause it to go flimsy.

vlad01 wrote:shouldn't a Porsche speedo just drop into a beetle?


I sold a 914 tacho last year and it was the exact diameter as a beetle speedo.
914 Gauges are same diameter as flat screen bug so they do with standard bugs but Lbug speedos are abit bigger and use different mounts.

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#871037
Joel wrote:The metal around the speedo that it sits in is a major strength part of the dash which joins the top and bottom section of the dash on the drivers side.
chopping that out will probably cause it to go flimsy.
Bummer. 😬

I'd kind of figured there must be a reason, otherwise others would have done it.

The basic problem with car modification is that it's a "knee bones connected to the thigh bone" style arranagement. As soon as you want to make one change it has a flow on effect which requires more changes.

I've had a sneaky feeling that this might require me to fork yet more folding stuff to get the dash (and associated air vents) sorted now rather than when I've had a chance to save up.

More grovelling will be required on my part! 😘 😘

Thanks
Craig
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#871043
Hi Craig

As a short term speedo fix, fit a push bike speedo, I had one in an old 1300 bug, it was very accurate but got upset at about 120 kph, it also didn't have back lighting.

Steve

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#871053
i wouldn't waste money on gauges and stuff,
New cars are going back to warning lights.
I have owned a few pobjoy motors and a good sound system is wat you need to drowned out the motor noise. 🤪
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#871205
1303Steve wrote:Hi Craig

As a short term speedo fix, fit a push bike speedo, I had one in an old 1300 bug, it was very accurate but got upset at about 120 kph, it also didn't have back lighting.

Steve

omg! lol. thats nedneck as 😂

post a pic, I want to see!

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#872637
I know I'm probably posting on the wrong forum, and should get myself over to boostcruising, but I'm thinking of trying something a little more like this:

http://www.stackltd.com/st8100.html

Anyone here know what brands are out there,what they're like etc?

Ideally it would have analog tach and speedo and the rest digital, but I haven't had a chance to do a thorough google yet.

Ian is quite right, I don't really want to clutter with gauges, but I do want to know the information so I don't detonate the engine. This would also look much neater in an L Bug
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#872641
Hi

That looks the goods, what do they cost?

My redneck speedo.

Steve

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Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#872656
It does look the goods, I'm just not sure I only want a digital speedo.

The cost is not insignificant; a mere 775 POUNDS. 😵‍💫 😵‍💫 🤓

These look even nicer, but first problem is cost, second is that I don't need a speedo that goes to 270km/h

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=5926

I was thinking one of these might be a half way solution:

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p14536/STACK-ST700-DASH-DISPLAY-SYSTEM/product_info.html

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/images/instrumentsl/st700.pdf

Trouble is making sure I get the right sensors!

This minute I think the plan is to keep the stock speedo and fuel, have the Stack multi display sitting somewhere and then get one of these as speedo back up:

http://www.hummingbirdelectronics.com.au/standard_dig_speedo.html?gclid=CPDKkOeKpqwCFcYkpAodelW41w

So many options, so much money, so much scope to get it expensively wrong.
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#872677
Just heard from the Australian Distributor for Stack:

The big mama (ST8130) costs $1,800 including GST (which I think includes all senders except fuel)
The smaller one (ST700) costs $840 including GST (although I'm pretty sure you then have to add senders to that figure)

🙄

I can probably buy a full set of VDO gauges and senders for half the price of the big one. 🙁
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

BiX Veteran Volks Folk

2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#872751
In terms of what gauges, maybe a cylinder head temp gauge could be useful. But it depends on how modified the motor is.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#874296
So I'm leaning more and more towards the Stack dash cluster:

http://www.stackltd.com/st8100.html

I've downloaded the manual and have been reading it to try and understand what I'm getting myself into.

For $1,800 it seems a lot but once you add up all the gauges it replaces and their senders, the price differential isn't that great.

The things it will do are:
* Engine speed
* Wheel speed
* Oil Pressure
* Oil temp
* Water temp (not that I'll need that)
* Fuel pressure (as an option)
* Fuel level
* Battery voltage

My questions mainly relate to the senders and whether they're compatible to my 'application' (as people like to describe these things).

Basically I'm just trying to figure out what the thread sizes are for the various switches.

In the display kit you can get different threads as follows:

Oil Pressure - M10 or 1/8th NPTF or 1/8th BSPT
Fuel Pressure - M10 or 1/8th NPTF or 1/8th BSPT
Oil Temp - M10 or 1/8th NPTF

What size are the threads in the universal crankcase I have??

The old speedo cable would get the flick and I would have to mount their wheel speed sensor instead.

The fuel tank sender can probably be used, but you need to calibrate it to the system. Read out is how many litres left.

In light of Lee's troubles, you can also set the system to set up alarms at levels that you configure and it does both a visual and audible alarm. The alarms are for:
* Low oil pressure
* High Oil temperature
* Low fuel pressure
* Fuel Level
* Battery voltage

It would seem that if the standard senders won't fit I can change them for ones that will, so my main question today is. What size senders do I need, and will the standard ones suffice?

Thanks for your help.

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1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#874300
The case is M10 x 1 for the oil pressure. The others, temp and fuel press are to be tapped/setup by you, so it's up to you.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#874304


Thanks Mat, this is a photo of the oil temp sender that is already sitting in the case, I suppose I'd better pull it out and have a look, but I'm assuming that M10 is a 10mm diameter.
1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

Craig S Wolfsburg Wizard

635 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#874334
vwo60 wrote:get yourself a bargin
Thanks for that. It's very tempting, but none of the kits does exactly as I want (i.e. the first one I don't want a 300km/h speedo, the second is in mph, the third is in farenheit, and all the senders are NPT). I might do some more looking at them though. I imagine if I contact them they can probably mix and match.

Other problem with those speedos is the calibration. From what I can find out you need to mark out a 2km course and drive that distance exactly to get an accurate reading. I'm not quite sure how that would be managed. With the Stack display you enter wheel circumference and it does the rest.

Measured the temp sender already in the case and it appears to be a M10

Also did a template of the size of the Stack display and sat it roughly where it would go. Smaller than I was anticipating. Would certainly be neat and relatively unobstrusive when recessed. There are also four switches to control the functions which would need to sit elsewhere.

Must admit I'm still not convinced on the digital speedo though.

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1969 Beetle - June
1974 L Bug - Gwendolyn
2002 Bora V6 4Motion - Anita

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#874375
I do not understand what you are saying as all the gauges are metric, most of the senders are npt that are readily available, all you do to calibrate the speedo is measure the tyre circumference and set the dip switches in the back of the speedo, there are a few VDO speedo's the have a lower max speed.