Skip to content
Aussieveedubbers

Porsche Box or Subie Box

0 likes
Share Share on Facebook Share on X Share on Reddit
Log in to reply

nitronugget Learner Dubber

13 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889696
Hi All, More questions.... 🙂

So i will be chucking a ej20t into my bay window sometime in the future and wondering what peoples opinions are on fitting the above 2 boxes.

Whcih one do you think would be the better choice?
I dont wanna spend 5-6k on a box and break it any time soon 🙂

cheers

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#889697
I can get a hold of a 996 6 sp for a good price if you decide to go that way pm me

toey1984 Commited Dubber

73 posts · joined Feb 2012 ·

#889723
My mate has a g50 5 speed with albins gears (99.7%sure) for $4-4500 ish?, ( he upgraded to a albins gearbox$$$$$) done very little off road use.
its 665mm long. ( near same size as 5 speed kombi box but much much taller.
he had a ej20 mounted on it some time ago
hit subi'gears up and see what he can do for you.
work out cost in convertiong both boxes into van and work out your $$$
By what i hear both boxes are strong but its all up to you in the end!
Good luck mate
Nathan

Adsman Officially Full-On Dubber

393 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#889786
Keep us posted on what you decide and how it turns out. There are a lot of people sitting on the fencing watching and wondering which way to go with the turbo motors. It would be good to hear more feedback about the subibox with the reverse gears and a turbo motor up it.
What my garage isn't messy........Well chaos is a form of order isn't it?

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889869
Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.
Subie box had a 3.9 final drive and the buggy had those massive 31" tyres on it, straining the hell out of the driveline.
Standard WRX gearset in the box, not even our top of the range Hybrid turbo gearset.
It's a $5450 gearbox with all new gearset & suncros inside it, with 12 months warranty.

Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.



I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.

It fits without cutting the torsion bar.

Here's a bay window fitted with an EJ25T STi. He's been driving it for nearly months now. This bus will be on the Subarugears stand at the VW nats if you want to see it in person and talk to the owner to get an unbiased opinion.



Remember, with a Subie motor and transmission your gearing is perfect, you use a standard flywheel, clutch and starter motor, your sump and exhausts are not as low as with a vw/porsche box and you don't need to buy an adaptor plate. There's a bit of cost/saving in that stuff as well as better exit angles for the back of the bus.

Right, that's enough self promotion for one day.....

nitronugget Learner Dubber

13 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889888
lol thats a prety good sales pitch right there....

whats the diference between the box he has and your more expensive hybrid boxes?
I like the idea of the sump and exhaust being a bit higher cos my bus is lowered. How much extra clearance we looking at here?

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889905
The hybrid boxes contain the strongest gearset that Subaru makes for them. They are a touch wider than the standard (older) WRX ones, have had some extra finishing tratment on them and also a combination of ratios that put the gearset under the least amount of strain possible.

It gives you a bit more security if you are going to pump the boost that bit more and go a little crazy.

The motor ends up about 55mm higher than when using a VW/Porsche transmission (and a touch more forward) so this translates to a similar amount for the sump and exhaust. The guy with the STi in his bay has shortened his sump and exhaust somewhat (checkout his build pix) - I reckon it would be worth a shot just using them as standard.

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#889919
Subarugears wrote:Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.

Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.



I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) & I did a 13.3@103mph.

I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?

Well done on the gearbox though.

Jak

nitronugget Learner Dubber

13 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889924
sounds prety good to me...
I just have to save up some cash to do it all which is going to take a while now should be this year tho 🙂

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889932
I look forward to it. Look out for some SUPER deals at the VW nats at the end of May.

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#889956
Jak Rizzo wrote:
Subarugears wrote:Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.

Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.



I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) & I did a 13.3@103mph.

I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?

Well done on the gearbox though.

Jak
shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s🤪

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#889979
What mph did the buggy run?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#889996
Dunno but don't forget the 31' tyres, 3.9 ring and pinion and wheelspin.
It was a bit of an exercise to see if we could throw everything at the box and prove it was up to it.
Would be a different story with normal size tyres or e/t streets even, and a 4.44 ring and pinion.

New onboard video of one of his runs with the gauges overlaid.
You can see the rpm, boost, throttle and feel the wheelspin.
I bet he had the worst 60 foot time ever.
I'll see if I can get a copy of the timeslip and incrementals - that will tell the story.

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#890005
60 ft time 2 secs, 1/8th mile 8,5 secs and 100mph through the traps, only in 3rd gear.
Ratios and tyres sizes the big factor there....

nitronugget Learner Dubber

13 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#890006
Nice. But those things are light as right. Wouldn't the weight of a bus put alot more strain onto the box then a buggy?

Subarugears Officially Full-On Dubber

236 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#890047
I made Aaron the offer via PM over a year ago but no reply. I'm pretty sure he is happy with his current setup.

Nitronugget click on one of the video links I posted above and you will see a 2.5 turbo STi motor in a heavy bus as you were referring to.

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#890054
Subarugears wrote:60 ft time 2 secs, 1/8th mile 8,5 secs and 100mph through the traps, only in 3rd gear.
Ratios and tyres sizes the big factor there....
Dude don't want to start a fight but...What you are failing to understand is that for a given weight to acheive a certain speed over the 1/4 mile your car must have ....horsepower.Maths dont lie.Just weigh the car and see what wallace racing has to say,just rember all dynos are diffrent.Its just like a flow bench its a tool,And we don't race dynos or flow benches we race cars on the strip.

Imac Commited Dubber

67 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·

#890058
JVLRacing wrote:
Jak Rizzo wrote:
Subarugears wrote:Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.

Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.



I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) & I did a 13.3@103mph.

I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?

Well done on the gearbox though.

Jak
shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s🤪
After watching the video don't you think traction may be a major issue?

coletrickle Wolfsburg Wizard

661 posts · joined Apr 2009 ·

#890062
Imac wrote:
JVLRacing wrote:
Jak Rizzo wrote:
Subarugears wrote:Had a customer drag race his Subarugears boxed buggy at WSID on the weekend.

Engine is an EJ20T with 18lbs boost, making approx 300hp and he was dumping the clutch at 6000rpm.
13.3 sec quarter mile times all day, 4 runs I think.



I think that speaks for itself about the strength of the transmission.
I just don't get drag racing at all. I only have 204hp@ the wheels, 8psi boost, car weighs 1020kg, I was babying it off the line (2.2sec 60ft) & I did a 13.3@103mph.

I would have thought 300hp in a buggy & driving it like u stole it would have done low 12's?

Well done on the gearbox though.

Jak
shit i agree with sir jako on this! buggy with less weight and 300hp low 12s or could of 11s🤪
After watching the video don't you think traction may be a major issue?
No..Go to wallace racing calculators enter in et/mph and vehical weight and tell me what hp its got at the wheels...I was guessing 1500lbs(usa site).The numbers i came up with are for the et its got 113.41hp@wheels,126.02 @fw.for the mph 108.11@wheels,120.12@fw.On the other hand if it weighs 3000lbs 13.3@100mph, its et its got 226.83@w and 252.03@fw.for its mph 216.22hp@w and 240.25hp@fw.

nitronugget Learner Dubber

13 posts · joined Dec 2011 ·

#890086
mmmmmmm. 2.5 STI.... yes pleass.

whats a half cut of one of them worth eek.
Id go the 2.5 if it wasnt too much more then a ej20t cut

11CAB If ya got it....Baja it

4,674 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#890091
So how does Dave Butler do a 10.9 with 220hp, and Wayne Penrose does 10.4 with 445hp both in beetles?
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#890192
torque with correct gear ratio to suit I say.

HP has nothing to do with acceleration.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#890329
Vlad; power is a function of torque relative to velocity and has everything to do with acceleration. Hence the term, "power to weight".
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#890340
yeah its just a derived figure, it wont help you calculate the acceleration characteristics of a given car unless you work backward to extrapolate the torque figures in which then acceleration can be calculated.

Its simple physics, torque is rotational force, force is what accelerates an object. power is just how much potential energy something can output or has not how much force it exerts, so thus you take two steps forward and one back to get the needed figure.


simply look at it this way, torque x angular velocity = hp right? yep ok you got that?

now when we apply the same "power" through a gearbox, the power is the same regardless of gear ratio as the rotation speed goes up, the torque goes down as ratios change so power is the same. ok thats simple

So lets pick 1st gear. the thing about high ratio gearing is it multiples the torque at cost of rotations speed, yes power is then the same yet again. eg. theoretical engine 100 hp/100flt-lb flywheel @ 4000rpm + 4:1 gears = 100hp/400ft-lb @ 1000rpm.

ok that makes sence!


So with more torque in 1st gear, that is why 1st give the most acceleration as cost of speed ( note speed and acceleration is not the same thing). hp just gives a general idea of the engine characteristics but is otherwise useless without the dyno chart figures so you can see the torque curve would be using the power figure.

perfect example of high power low acceleration is high hp but only a peak narrow band with f**k all torque anywhere, where you can have lower hp but with broad (ideally flat) torque curve which in turn give a linear power curve (ideally) that is what gives you good acceleration.


its all down to the torque curve, its simple and I am surprised how many people are not ever aware of it.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#890394
11CAB wrote:So how does Dave Butler do a 10.9 with 220hp, and Wayne Penrose does 10.4 with 445hp both in beetles?
hypo-vw wrote:My type-4 engine was well down on power when I ran 139.70mph last week in my oval . I have air intake temp issues and only made 1 pass on full throttle , the other 4 runs I had to lift before the line . At Warwick last year the oval had 443rwhp and the dyno session the day before WSID produced 380rwhp . I stll ran the oval as I had installed a really fat tune and A/F's showed between 4.9 - 5.2

When I get this sorted I am confident that it will go fast !!
vlad01 wrote:yeah its just a derived figure, it wont help you calculate the acceleration characteristics of a given car unless you work backward to extrapolate the torque figures in which then acceleration can be calculated.

Its simple physics, torque is rotational force, force is what accelerates an object. power is just how much potential energy something can output or has not how much force it exerts, so thus you take two steps forward and one back to get the needed figure.


simply look at it this way, torque x angular velocity = hp right? yep ok you got that?

now when we apply the same "power" through a gearbox, the power is the same regardless of gear ratio as the rotation speed goes up, the torque goes down as ratios change so power is the same. ok thats simple

So lets pick 1st gear. the thing about high ratio gearing is it multiples the torque at cost of rotations speed, yes power is then the same yet again. eg. theoretical engine 100 hp/100flt-lb flywheel @ 4000rpm + 4:1 gears = 100hp/400ft-lb @ 1000rpm.

ok that makes sence!


So with more torque in 1st gear, that is why 1st give the most acceleration as cost of speed ( note speed and acceleration is not the same thing). hp just gives a general idea of the engine characteristics but is otherwise useless without the dyno chart figures so you can see the torque curve would be using the power figure.

perfect example of high power low acceleration is high hp but only a peak narrow band with f**k all torque anywhere, where you can have lower hp but with broad (ideally flat) torque curve which in turn give a linear power curve (ideally) that is what gives you good acceleration.


its all down to the torque curve, its simple and I am surprised how many people are not ever aware of it.
Great explanation Vlad. 👍 👍
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

JVLRacing Custom Title Time!

1,100 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#890815
TICK wrote:Try one of those boxes in Aaron's 20b black bus
Agreeable!!

G50 if u can afford it no doubt
Subie boxes.... sounding there some results from subiegears

Not all boxes break... there was a stupid quote earlier sayin they all break Rubbish!! when people tell u drive ur car like a shoppin trolley u know not to buy what he has....

A Good eg. Dave butler😎(hello dave) hes not goin to build a box thats not goin to take the strain of hes hps from hes motor..he builds wat suits and works

G50 you are not goin wrong cause u know they run big hp figures...

End of the day, look at what hp figures your goin to run!
Also talk to Steve carter,(hello steve) hes setting up a G50 with subie power "smart"

goodluck