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Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#894845
Anyone using one in their high performance beetle motor ?
I'm going to be building a motor soon and was thinking of putting one in while its apart.

Any feedback good or bad would be appreciated

Cheers


BiX Veteran Volks Folk

2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#894960
I have one, I think flat4.

In my old motor it seemed to work ok, though could still get the red light on cornering.

I ran/run it mostly with a extended sump and I think that makes more of a difference.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!

nils Fahrvergnugen

971 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#894977
BiX wrote:I have one, I think flat4.

In my old motor it seemed to work ok, though could still get the red light on cornering.

I ran/run it mostly with a extended sump and I think that makes more of a difference.
ditto, makes things better but can still get the light to come on
Quit calling rust patina

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#895074
What size oil pump are you planning on running Craig?

The bigger the pump the faster the sump will drain!

Cheers Col

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#895104
30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for some form of benefit ?!


colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#895164
Craig Torrens wrote:30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for some form of benefit ?!
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.

Cheers Col

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#895167
I agree with Colin, 26mm pump
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Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#895174
Thanks for that..............did you use a "boosted" relief spring ?


1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#895191
Hi Craig

What were you using when you run your hill climb car?

With a windage tray there can be a danger of the oil not getting back to the sump quickly enough.

Are windage push rod tubes a better way to go?

Steve

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#895192
Dry sump.

Go on, you know you want to...

😏
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HappyDaze Superannuated

2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·

#895197
One problem with the dry sump is the danger of high crank-case temperatures. My sports sedan suffered from this trouble, as there is virtually no oil 'sloshing' around, and therefore very little 'oil cooling'. Oil temp. was fine, but the crankcase temp. was high, and the magnesium alloy become 'less strong' at these high temps.

My No.8 Beetle has a deep sump, and NO windage tray, for what it's worth.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!

hypo-vw Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132m

2,151 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#895201
I do run a windage tray in "HORACE" the speedway bug and a deep sump also . Horace has been at many different angles and sideways more than any bug that I know of ..... and it has never had the oil light come on 👍
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fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#895220
Hi Craig,

I found the Jaycee oil pressure relief remote filter mount was the answer to all my problems.

It pumps the excess pressure from cold oil or high revs back to the sump. It could be a bit dodgy but I just tapped a fitting into the side of the Stan Pobjoy sump. That's where the oil returns to; right by the oil pump pick-up.

Link to the product at veedub parts unlimited
esratrams

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#895232
Sides wrote:Dry sump.

Go on, you know you want to...

😏
You got specific info on yours dude?
Reub

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#895281
Craig Torrens wrote:Thanks for that..............did you use a "boosted" relief spring ?
No,
I did however after trial and error find that my berg 3.5quart sump was a big problem as it kept the oil away from the pick up tube.
Went to the smaller berg sump.

Off topic, CT your new avatar is sexy.

Cheers Col

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#895287
how bout the old hellbug trick of gated sump!
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Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#895410
hypo-vw wrote:I do run a windage tray in "HORACE" the speedway bug and a deep sump also . Horace has been at many different angles and sideways more than any bug that I know of ..... and it has never had the oil light come on 👍
Hi Wayne, are you using the 30mm pump or another size ?


Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#895413
colin wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for some form of benefit ?!
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.

Cheers Col
Hi Col, was it a 30mm pump that was causing you the oil supply issue ? If so, did you use the 30mm pump with the smaller sump that you have now or was it only used with the larger 3.5 sump ?

Any reason youre not using the 26mm ?

Cheers
Craig T


colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#895566
Craig Torrens wrote:
colin wrote:
Craig Torrens wrote:30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for some form of benefit ?!
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.

Cheers Col
Hi Col, was it a 30mm pump that was causing you the oil supply issue ? If so, did you use the 30mm pump with the smaller sump that you have now or was it only used with the larger 3.5 sump ?

Any reason youre not using the 26mm ?

Cheers
Craig T
I only used the larger 30mm pump with the large sump.
i then stepped down to a 26mm pump and large sump, then 26mm and small sump then 23mm and small sump solved the issue.
My engine is not your typical VW engine in regards to comparing to a street engine.
Mine is pulled down cases split inspected rebuilt to exact specs by Larry and he is as fussy and particular as i am, every year.
So thats why i suggested a 26mm pump for a daily street engine as you would not do this maintenence schedule every year.
I have changed my engines oil breather system this last off season, and a larger pump may now work ok, but the 23mm as i have said has plenty of pressure so i,m not about to fix something that works fine.

Cheers Col

PS this is a great thread, allways good to listen to other peoples experiences and thoughts.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#895587
Cheers Col, I guess the 23mm is the best option for chasing HP as well.

The motor I'm building will be for some weekend twisty road driving, and you're right, I don't intend to be pulling it down each year !!

Thanks again for your input. 😎


nils Fahrvergnugen

971 posts · joined Jan 2008 ·

#895649
craig, I had the 30mm pump at one point too. That little sucker takes the oil out quicker than it can get back,

have had no problems with the 26mm
Quit calling rust patina