Has anyone had any experience with run flat tyres on the front of a bug?
I'm up for some new tyres and looking at some Goodyear Eagle NCT run-flats but I'm just wondering if the weight difference may be an issue and also if they are fine running such a low tyre pressure.
THe tyre shops are no help, when you mention the front tyres are run at 19psi they are usually like GTFO, you can't do that 🤪
Cheers
It is essential when using run flat tyres that they are operated in conjunction with a tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS), to ensure the driver is informed when there is any loss of pressure.
Run flat tyres are designed to have a "get you home capability" and depending on the particular tyre brand, can be operated up to a distance of 100km, provided the maximum speed of the vehicle does not exceed 80km/hr. It is suggested you refer to the particular tyre manufacturer's recommendations for their specific guidelines.
I have no idea if the tyre will be stuffed by the time that you get home.🤪 hope this helps.
cause how you going to tell if its going flat???
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲
I'm already in the habit of checking the pressures very regularly.
40 series tyres don't even look flat when they are, caught me out a couple of times now.
I have heard they can't be repaired so that makes for an expensive option if thats the case
Keeping it real !
say you driving to valla , and your tyre goes down and you cant tell, how do you know when it went down at what Ks and is it safe to drive that 100Ks home etc.🤪
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲
Ive just been to a drive day up here with a big name tyre brand at which they demoed their run flats. We got to drive them around fully flat (valve stem removed) in Commodores at 40kph including turns, slaloms and hard braking with hands off the wheel. It would be pretty hard to pick if they were even flat! These ones were good for 80kms at 80kph, but they'd be a replacement at the end of that. We discussed tyre pressure monitoring system and the reps said that a TPMS is pretty important.
You should note that a run flat will have a harsher ride than standard tyre due to the sidewall being significantly thicker. It feels like driving around on over inflated tyres.
Lastly your rims would need to be compatible with run flats too
a mate has them on his new mini as there is no room for a spare
they coat a lot and don't last all that long
im not sure about the ride as it's hard anyways in the mini
if you don't have much room for a spare could you get a space saver one made up to get you out of trouble
Run-flat tyres are the reason that modern BMWs have a harsh, noisy ride. I would avoid them at all costs. Unless you're crossing the centre of Australia, you're better off running regular tyres and carrying a can of tyre slime and a compressor. If you are crossing Australia, then you need a spare anyway.
Joel wrote:THe tyre shops are no help, when you mention the front tyres are run at 19psi they are usually like GTFO, you can't do that 🤪
Joel,
I've had tyreshops flatly refuse warranty after I requested them to inflate fronts to 18psi. Then, after showing them a (later, with steel radials) owners manual, they still end up making a phone call and sometimes even that doesn't work. I just get them to do 18psi knowing I've got it in the bag anyway if I need warranty, might take a bit longer to claim but I'm patient and will enjoy being right in the long run.
Regards,
Matt.
Thanks for the replies everyone, looks like run-flats aren't worth the hassle.
The tyre shop just had some on display in the showroom and I was wondering about them.
Matt, first thing I do when I get the front tyres on the bug after the tyre shop has fitted them is let about 20psi out lol
I always have the same problem.
Even 2 weeks ago I had some bushes replaced in the steering and a wheel alignment done. The bloke was pretty good and thourough, and when I got the car back, he mentioned that all my tires were really low and he had pumped them up. He mainly mentioned it because he thought there may well have been a reason all 4 were low, and figured it was easier to pump them up and let me know - if they needed less air it was a lot easier to let out again.
I was please he told me - I was about to leave Inverell and go down the mountain on the windy Olxey Hwy back to Port in the drizzly rain - I would have been bouncing and skidding all over the place I reckon.
From your ole' mate Jeff
Hi
I've also heard that the run flat tyres are pretty heavy
So what tyre pressures do other light weight cars use?, Rear engine Renaults old minis etc
Steve
Smart cars supposedly recommend 29psi front and 36psi in the rear (as they're rear engined). Seems a bit high to me, but I suppose they need it because of the low-profile tyres making the rims vulnerable to pothole damage.
I've also heard bad stories abour BMW's and run flats.
I know of one case where someone limped home on one and it was destroyed. Needless to say it was hellishly expensive to replace.
I agree "run flats" are designed for running your budget flat ..... a mate of mine had tehm in his Mini and they are NOT cheap ...bubbled the tyres at Lakeside on a friendly trach day ...... $400 dollars later ...
Greg Gordon-Lane
Brisbane
Vw's are part of life's journey .... get on board!
VW Safari / Thing 1976 - "A work in progress"
Ducati St4s - "Poetry in motion"
Matt Ryan wrote:Joel wrote:THe tyre shops are no help, when you mention the front tyres are run at 19psi they are usually like GTFO, you can't do that 🤪
Joel,
I've had tyreshops flatly refuse warranty after I requested them to inflate fronts to 18psi. Then, after showing them a (later, with steel radials) owners manual, they still end up making a phone call and sometimes even that doesn't work. I just get them to do 18psi knowing I've got it in the bag anyway if I need warranty, might take a bit longer to claim but I'm patient and will enjoy being right in the long run.
Regards,
Matt.
The tyre manufacturer sets the recommended operating pressure of the tyre,NOT the car manufacturer. I used to work in the tyre industry and found NO company that would warrant running a tyre at 18 psi on a car. The manufacturer sets the maximum and minimum pressures that their product will operate at. What you handbook suggests is NOT relevant to a tyre manufacturer. So what makes you "right" in the long run??? Why have you "got it in the bag" if you need warranty???? I've never in my 28 years of legal driving had a claim for a tyre due to failure.....and I've seen plenty of claims refused due to incorrect tyre operation as per tyre manufacturers specifications.
tssnq.com.au
That creates a bit of a grey area.
What happens when a car loses control and has an accident because the handling was compromised by running too high a tyre pressure?
We all know bugs handle like shopping trolleys if you put more than 20psi in the front.
Apparently tyres shops don't though 😂
Tyres should be inflated to the reccomended pressures as stated by the manufacturers. So if you have a standard tyre / wheel inflated to ....say...18psi and take a sharp corner and it pops off the rim who's a dill??? Ive had MANY VW's over the years and have NEVER run less than 25 PSI in the front of any of them....including my buggies. If you lost control and had an accident i would say it was driver error,or in most cases the front end needed work.
tssnq.com.au
http://www.maic.qld.gov.au/forms-publications-stats/pdfs/tyre-pressure-report-final.pdf
THE ROLE OF TYRE PRESSURE IN VEHICLE SAFETY, INJURY and ENVIRONMENT.
Prepared for Heads of Compulsory Third Party Insurance in Australia and New Zealand 24 April 2007.
2.2 Definition of under-inflated tyres.
Under the Australian Design Rules vehicle manufacturers must fit a Tyre and Rim Placard in a prominent place. The placard must list, as a minimum, the recommended tyre inflation pressures for a "normal" vehicle load.
There is no universal definition of what constitutes an "under-inflated tyre".The US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 138 requires a warning if tyres are under-inflated by more than 25%. Based on this FMVSS requirement, we regard a severely under-inflated tyres as 50 kilopascals (kPa) or more below the recommended pressure. For reference, 1 psi = 6.9kPa so this equates to 7.2psi. The US FMSS Standard is described in more detail in the following section.
We regard moderate under-inflation as in the range 20-49kPa under the recommended pressure.
http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/passenger/care/pressure.aspx
Tyre pressure tips:
Contrary to popular belief, tyre pressure is not determined by the type of tyre or its size but upon your vehicle's load and driving application i.e. speed To find out what your car's tyre pressure should be, consult the manufacturers tyre placard usually found inside the driver's door sill, glove box, fuel filler cap or under the bonnet. The placard also displays the manufacturers recommended tyre sizes.
I reckon a good lawyer could argue that a glovebox handbook tyre chart was equivalently accurate data to an ADR tyre placard.
The relavent design rule is: ADR 24, 1 Jan 1973
Mick, I have no reason to doubt your experience in the industry but common industry practice doesn't always make it agree with the relavent laws. The practice of using tyre manufacturers numbers as the standard probably still goes on and will continue until it gets challenged in the courts I reckon.
Regards,
Matt.
Thats not relevant to the arguement. Find me ONE manufacturer that will happily allow you to inflate their tyres to 18-20 PSI, for highway use as well. Your kinda saying that if you were to buy the run flat tyres that you would inflate them to 18 psi,reguardless of what the manufacturer says to inflatye them to??? The first thing in a claim is to determin cause of failure....easilly done by looking at the tyre. Under inflation causes heat problems etc which lead to premature tyre wear/failure etc.. but i suppose you still use Nylon tyres like the car came out with (if earliy enough)????
tssnq.com.au
Hi
OK, who runs the VW recommended pressure in their bug tyres and who has had a heat related failure or a wear pattern that would suggest under inflation?
Not me, I've been running 18 psi front & 26-28 psi in the rear in my Beetles since 1971.
I get 3-4 times the wear out of my front tyres as opposed to the rear.
Steve
I reckon those whacky German engineers must have known a thing or 2 about best tyres pressures for the cars they were designing.
I've run just about every tyre size on my bugs over the years from stock 165s to huge profile 14" right up to 18" with fan belts for tyres and after 17 years of bug ownership I've always found best all round front pressure regardless of tyre type was 18-20psi and 28-30 in the back.
with the way I put my bugs through their paces I'm sure if I was gonna pop a bead or something else catastrophic it would have happened by now.
I don't doubt tyres technology has changed and in some instances different pressures would be called for but I'm just going on what works for me.
I've always found that once you start getting over 20psi in the front the ride becomes harsher, grips less and if you hit a bump mid corner it will bounce and skip around a lot more.
On the plus side though the steering becomes a lot lighter.
I did a rim shuffle between my cars a few years ago and forgot the tyres I put on my bug had 32 all round from being on my FWD main streamer.
I could have sworn I was at the helm of the titanic.
I have been running similar pressures, but only since 1975, and it has included a LOT of long distance highway driving, windy roads (especially the Oxley Hwy over the range), and gravel roads, and have also never had a heat related failure, uneven wear due to under inflation (poor wheel alignment yes, but not under inflation), or rolled a tire off a rim without hitting something VERY hard. I have had rocks, sticks, and grass between the rim and the tire after pushing a bit hard at times, but the tire has always stayed on.
I have had problems losing traction with over inflated tires (when I have had work done on the car), and on a few occasions have nearly come to grief.
It seems to me that Volkswagen had a good handle on what is specifically needed in their cars to keep them handling safely, and the tire manufactures are woking on the average heavy car and what they need to specify to try and lessen the chance of idiots abusing the tires and blaming them for it.
I reckon the safety aspect alone (let alone the better ride) really leans towards running somewhere near the vehicle manufacturers recommended tire pressures.
From your ole' mate Jeff
MickH wrote:Thats not relevant to the arguement. Find me ONE manufacturer that will happily allow you to inflate their tyres to 18-20 PSI, for highway use as well. Your kinda saying that if you were to buy the run flat tyres that you would inflate them to 18 psi,reguardless of what the manufacturer says to inflatye them to??? The first thing in a claim is to determin cause of failure....easilly done by looking at the tyre. Under inflation causes heat problems etc which lead to premature tyre wear/failure etc.. but i suppose you still use Nylon tyres like the car came out with (if earliy enough)????
Volkswagen:
I can't see that it's not relavant. The Law (ADR 24) says you must comply with the vehicle manufacturers rim, tyre and tyre pressure recommendations, and the vehicle manufacturer must display this information on the vehicle for all to see.
I never mentioned run flat tyres at all. My comments were about tyre shops not believing the factory specifications.
My opinion on run flat tyres is that they are a bit of an expensive wank, except for special applications. eg armoured cars, maybe emergency vehicles.
Regards,
Matt.
Matt Ryan wrote:Joel wrote:THe tyre shops are no help, when you mention the front tyres are run at 19psi they are usually like GTFO, you can't do that 🤪
Joel,
I've had tyreshops flatly refuse warranty after I requested them to inflate fronts to 18psi. Then, after showing them a (later, with steel radials) owners manual, they still end up making a phone call and sometimes even that doesn't work. I just get them to do 18psi knowing I've got it in the bag anyway if I need warranty, might take a bit longer to claim but I'm patient and will enjoy being right in the long run.
Regards,
Matt.
This is my point....YOU ARE NOT RIGHT.......THE TYRE MANUFACTURER sets the specifications for what THEIR TYRES should be run at. They couldn't give a flying %*ck what your tyre spec in the glovebox reads..they dont care.....not relevant...you need to fit a tyre that meets the specifications for YOUR vehicle not the other way around.So Joel....you run 40 series tyres/combo on your car. Although that is illegal in Australia for your vehicle,do you run those tyres at 19 PSi? I also rekon the Germans got it right,no arguement there!!! My point is the tyre manufactures have the final say and in a nutshell if you dont play by their rules your stuffed....bit like damned if you do and damned if you dont....
Also remember the guy at the tyre shop most probably knows a hell of a lot more about tyres than you ,just not as much about VW's.....so next time you have a crack at them on a public forum just remember if something does go wrong,he's the guy that will decide how much egg you wear.
😂
For the record i run/ran these pressures:
Beetle- front 22 rear 30
T2=front 32 rear 34
Syncro front and rear 36
Buggy (COR abortion) 25 front 34 rear Subaru etc etc....xtra weight
411- 28 front and 32 rear
Other buggys 20 front and 32 rear
The pressures vary due to different tyre types,vehicle modifications,terrain and most driving involves over 100kmh speeds....offroads are aired down on the rear only (buggy) to 5psi..
tssnq.com.au
OK, I'm talking about a buggy not a standard rear engine VW, the wench has everything in the back including the fuel tank. On a recent trip in the wench I trusted the service of said wench to an "ordinary" motor mechanic a bit north of Perth (Yanchep), without telling me, he inflated all the tyres to 36psi, I found out when I hit the first round-a-bout, the front wheels locked up and when I backed off the brakes she understeered like she had a thing for the kerb on the outside of the turn and wanted to mount it there and then (ok, I was going just a bit faster than I should have been 😂😵💫 ) up untill that time I had been wondering why she seemed a bit hard on the ride, when I checked the tyre preasures I knew why. After I lowered the preasure to around 25-28 rear and 15-18 front it was much safer and I don't realy care what the tyre manufacturer says.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
Matt Ryan wrote:MickH wrote:Thats not relevant to the arguement. Find me ONE manufacturer that will happily allow you to inflate their tyres to 18-20 PSI, for highway use as well. Your kinda saying that if you were to buy the run flat tyres that you would inflate them to 18 psi,reguardless of what the manufacturer says to inflatye them to??? The first thing in a claim is to determin cause of failure....easilly done by looking at the tyre. Under inflation causes heat problems etc which lead to premature tyre wear/failure etc.. but i suppose you still use Nylon tyres like the car came out with (if earliy enough)????
Volkswagen:
I can't see that it's not relavant. The Law (ADR 24) says you must comply with the vehicle manufacturers rim, tyre and tyre pressure recommendations, and the vehicle manufacturer must display this information on the vehicle for all to see.
I never mentioned run flat tyres at all. My comments were about tyre shops not believing the factory specifications.
My opinion on run flat tyres is that they are a bit of an expensive wank, except for special applications. eg armoured cars, maybe emergency vehicles.
Regards,
Matt.
Yes we all know what the pressures are supposed to be......like i said,show me a TYRE manufacturer that will openly say its OK to run those specs on their tyres.......
tssnq.com.au
MickH wrote:So Joel....you run 40 series tyres/combo on your car. Although that is illegal in Australia for your vehicle,do you run those tyres at 19 PSi? I also rekon the Germans got it right,no arguement there!!! My point is the tyre manufactures have the final say and in a nutshell if you dont play by their rules your stuffed....bit like damned if you do and damned if you dont....
My car fits into the post 73 ADRs and due to it's current kerb weight the 17x7 with 215/40s is all legal and engineered and yes I run the front at 19psi, my next set of tyres will be 205/50s though.
I've had 17 and 18s on it for about 5-6 years now and a good 80,000+kms and not had any issues unless I pump them up higher then I start to experience things like harsh ride, less grip etc.
As you say damned if you do... but I'd rather stick with what makes for best all round driving and whats worked for me for years than what the tyre manufactures suggest which makes the car worse to drive.
The tyre manufacturer cannot possibly set the recommended pressure. The required tyre pressure depends on the weight of the vehicle. If two different cars use the same sized tyre, then the heavier vehicle will require higher tyre pressure. As Beetles are at least 25% lighter than any modern car, it is obvious that they will need lower tyre pressures. Since Joel is running 17"x7" rims, the tyres he's using are probably also used on cars with double the weight of the bug. The required tyre pressure for the two cars cannot be the same.
1303Steve wrote:Hi
I've also heard that the run flat tyres are pretty heavy
So what tyre pressures do other light weight cars use?, Rear engine Renaults old minis etc
Steve
yes, more unsprug weight is not something you want especially that the front of a vw is so light.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
