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Starter motor 12v on 6volt trans

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smithy68 Wolfsburg Wizard

419 posts · joined Oct 2010 ·

#931687
Can anyone tell me what is involved to run a 12volt starter on a 6 volt flywheel, e.g changing the throwout gear on the starter, etc?
Is it an easy mod?

southspark Seriously Crusin Dubber

130 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#931691
I would leave the 6v starter & change the solenoid to 12v (grey motor early holden is the same but 12v) A lot less hassle

Paul

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#931693
change the brass bush in the gearbox bell housing, you will need a conversion bush 6v to 12v, engine will need to come out to install.... just did one this weekend.
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#931694
this will allow use of 12v starter
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

sikras Seriously Crusin Dubber

106 posts · joined Feb 2011 ·

#931695
is it woth while changing from 6 to 12, and if so does any1 sell a kit form of everything you need ?

Or is there a thread in this forum already relating to this ?

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#931709
Buy a conversion bush and a new starter motor. a mate just purchased all the parts from Cip1 and they were delivered to his door in 4 days.

A 6v starter will work with 12v system, it might spin a bit faster and wont live as long.
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

empi Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,131 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#931713
pretty simple process.

drop engine , remove starter, use a centre punch or tap (tap & die kit i used the punch), tap the old 6v bush out from starter side into bellhousing, insert 12v conversion bush! fit 12v starter re fit engine connect all wires and hey presto job done.... assuming u have converted the rest of the car to 12v.
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous 🥷

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#931714
Remove the starter, then using a M12 tap simply tap the starter bush, when the tap reaches the engine case it pushes the bush out, all with out removing the engine, done it quite a few time, i have not tried to run the 12 volt starter on the 6 volt fly wheel, but the ring gear is different and the pinion will not mesh, i ran a 6 volt stater on 12 volts for years in one of my daily drivers.

AA003 Custom Title Time!

1,189 posts · joined Oct 2011 ·

#931738
Isn't the flywheel different?
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.

Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!😂

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#931741
the flywheels are different dont mix n match or u will have problems

as well as the drive gears on the starters
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#931763
As said above just keep using the 6volt starter , the only downside is that the starter spins pretty quickly which in the long term will chew the side of the teeth of the flywheel , but when i say long term , i mean it'll take several years for it to do any serious damage to the flywheel .
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

southspark Seriously Crusin Dubber

130 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#931807
To stop the flywheel getting chewed out refer to my first post,as for wearingout the 6v starter starts the engine up quicker therefore the its working for a shorter time=same wear as 12v.

Paul

mackaymanx Custom Title Time!

1,611 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#931815
This is what you need. Industrial starter motor 12 volt with 6 volt pinion and shaft. This would bolt straight in but good luck finding one.

Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."

[IMG]https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-18600.png[/IMG]

Matt Ryan Fahrvergnugen

890 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#932005
12 volt solenoid off a holden grey motor is the go. It stops the pinion gear on 6volt starter from slamming twice as hard against the ring gear due to twice the voltage. Also, because the pinion gear is not travelling as fast along the heilix that is machined into the shaft, it won't be spinning twice as fast when it hits either.

It's the perfect solution, gears are perfectly matched and meshing at the right speed and when they are engaged and the starter actually starts spinning, it spins real quick and gets you going with the merest touch of the key.

Maybe try some holden forums, or do what I did and go to a local holden club show and buy one at their swap meet. I got mine for $20.

Definately fit a new starter bush while you're at it.

Try emailing this guy on ebay? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RECONDITIONED-12-VOLT-BOSCH-STARTER-MOTOR-SUITS-FE-FC-FB-EK-EJ-HOLDEN-GREY-MOTOR-/170897198890?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ca444f2a

Regards,

Matt.


http://portvwforum.freeforums.org

southspark Seriously Crusin Dubber

130 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#932015
I have a solenoid for $30 or reconditioned starter with 12v sol. for $120 + shipping.

Paul

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#932038
AA003 wrote:Isn't the flywheel different?
Yes, 12 volt and 6 volt have different numbers of teeth on the flywheel and starter pinion..

looks like the holden solenoid is the way to go...

and fit a new 6 volt bush with a bit of grease on it..

anyone got the numbers for the holden solenoid??
I presume it will be a BOSCH Australia..??

cheers

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#932045
empi wrote:this will allow use of 12v starter
12v and 6v flywheel have different number of teeth on ring gear and starter toothed wheel needs to match this.

Stick with the 6V starter and if the box is for a 12v then just get the correct conversion bush. No real need to change the solenoid to 12v so long as you don't have to crank the thing for more than 5-6secs to start. Excess starting will make the motor rather warm and if it gets too hot the motor winding enamel will fail and the starter will short out and maybe even catch fire.

BUT loads of peps use 6v with 12v electrics without any problems. I mean if your engine don't start within 10-15 secs then there is something wrong with it 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

veedubberpaul58 Casual Dubber

48 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#932084
I can now offer a Cranky kit starter complete (or kit only) to suit a 6V ring gear if you want to go down that path if you require a little extra power

these are self supporting starters so theres no mucking around changing bronze bushes in bellhousings etc...ever!!!


PM me if interested or email fit-turn-tech@hotmail.com
www.steelart.com.au

www.crankykits.com.au

Matt Ryan Fahrvergnugen

890 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#932211
psimitar wrote:
empi wrote:this will allow use of 12v starter
12v and 6v flywheel have different number of teeth on ring gear and starter toothed wheel needs to match this.

Stick with the 6V starter and if the box is for a 12v then just get the correct conversion bush. No real need to change the solenoid to 12v so long as you don't have to crank the thing for more than 5-6secs to start. Excess starting will make the motor rather warm and if it gets too hot the motor winding enamel will fail and the starter will short out and maybe even catch fire.

BUT loads of peps use 6v with 12v electrics without any problems. I mean if your engine don't start within 10-15 secs then there is something wrong with it 🙂
It's not cranking time that causes problems, a tuned engine should have no probs. As in my post above it is the speed that the pinion gear is spinning at and how hard it is thrown towards the flywheel that causes problems.

Leaving a 6volt solenoid on will result in a chewed ring gear eventually. It will take a few years but it will happen. If you can get a 12 volt solenoid or a 6v starter that has one fitted they are the two easiest aproaches to fix this problem.

Regards,

Matt.


http://portvwforum.freeforums.org

southspark Seriously Crusin Dubber

130 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#932217
Matt it is good to see advice given by somebody who knows the subject & can explain it clearly !

Paul
ps.I have only 40 yrs as auto elec. experience what do i know?