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When do you need a wing ?

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55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·

#941472
Like the title says, is there any rule of thumb on the wing thing ?

Im hoping to run 9's and 140ish mph in the new wagon. Want to keep it as clean as possible.

whathaveidone Custom Title Time!

1,559 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#941520
9s@140!!!!!! What the hell you got in it??????? Wings that work(not like mine) are a trial and error thing. Give it a run and see how it feels. Pretty sure your not gunna run a 9 straight off the trailer so by the time you get there you will know if you need one.

whathaveidone Custom Title Time!

1,559 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#941531
No maybes about it. If you get that thing going you will see 9s.
but i stand buy what i said before. you will know when you need one!!!!
I did think you were talking about a type3 wagon!!! A little disapointed now!!

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#941535
Might be one of those things that it's best to fit and make sure it's effective BEFORE you find out you need it. Kinda like brakes.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#941540
55slug if yr gunna runs 9s on the 1/4 mile PLEASE tell us what you have done and how much you have spent

do u mean the 1/8 mile ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

whathaveidone Custom Title Time!

1,559 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#941546
He said 140mph dave!!! Ide like to see that on an 8th in a bug!!!!!!

bajachris88 The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 6

6,661 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·

#941551
If you use a rear wing to reduce drag and 'eddy's', at the same token, you could create more drag by adding one! Then comes the adjustments to find that 'sweet spot'.

Maybe be better off with a rear diffuser of sorts, or incorporate diffusers into a wing?

If someone has alot of time they could model a basic vw shape and run it through ANSYS fluent to trial for fluid flow lol. Find that 'perfect' angle to reduce turbulence/drag behind so it can cut through the air :P
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!

SuperOwen Fahrvergnugen

868 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#941571
bajachris88 wrote:If you use a rear wing to reduce drag and 'eddy's', at the same token, you could create more drag by adding one! Then comes the adjustments to find that 'sweet spot'.

Maybe be better off with a rear diffuser of sorts, or incorporate diffusers into a wing?

If someone has alot of time they could model a basic vw shape and run it through ANSYS fluent to trial for fluid flow lol. Find that 'perfect' angle to reduce turbulence/drag behind so it can cut through the air :P
Points for thinking outside the box but have you ever looked at the back of a vw drag car? Not the easiest place to put a diffuser.

Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it

4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·

#941572
This wing wouldn't do your car justice. I agree with Ben. See how it goes. Plenty of guys running quick without them.
Only true way is run a 9 without one then bolt one on and see if it's better or worse.

Assuming you don't have access to a wind tunnel.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#941581
I fitted my crusty old wing in 1991 and felt the improvement even from the 103mph I ran on my first run.
It was(and still is) the wing I used as fast as 147mph and 9.7 about 15 years go.
I know you can get away with no wing to some point,
but disrupting the flow over the roof,
and thus reducing lift, is beneficial even at 100 mph.
You may find that just propping the lid a little may be enough,
but I would like something about 400mm wide as a start.

You know HP is funny when it comes to "running a xx sec pass".
When you have barely enough, it can be hard to acheive a certain goal,
but once you have heaps, and a good track surface, all you need are the balls.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

1916baja Custom Title Time!

1,990 posts · joined Sep 2007 ·

#941589
You put a wing on when you want your car to look cool aye Ben!

whathaveidone Custom Title Time!

1,559 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#941590
Mick your overcompensating for something with your wing!!!!!!!!!!!!😂😂😂😂

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#941592
I'm no aerodynamic expert but if the objective is to disrupt the airflow over the roof and reduce lift as opposed to actually producing downforce, you could try a small (like 30 - 50mm) fence just above the rear window at say 65 degrees or so. This should split the boundary layer at that point and hopefully not produce too much drag (like he wing fence on the back of a v8 supercar).

Just a thought.

modnrod Fahrvergnugen

978 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#941596
The tiny little lip above the back of the early Golf back window was apparently responsible, on it's own for reducing lift by over 30%, and improving Cd by 0.05 or 0.06 or something.
I'm with Doug, I'd just put a smooth 2" or 3" flat lip above the back window from drip line to drip line to start, and combine that with a flat undertray under the nose and see how it goes. You can feel the back when it does start to lift a bit, or the front.

There's a world of difference between mid 1.6 60ft with 12s, and mid 1.2s with 9s. Just the effect on vision out of the hole is huge.
Creep up on a bit for the first few runs before you nail it.

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#941601
1916baja wrote:You put a wing on when you want your car to look cool aye Ben!
Is that before or after you paint it black Mick ???

😀 😀 😀

1st gen Audi TT was a classic study in aerodynamics... on original release they tended to lift the tail at high speed, which the official solution was a 2 inch razor edged lip mounted on the boot lid... which Audi fitted on recall.

Looked poxy, but it disrupted the airflow enough to stop the whole car becoming a wing !!!

VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#941603
What Doug suggested is actually what many of the Kafer Cup cars used to run... Have a look at some fo the German Look cars run now.... It's pretty much exactly what has been suggested.
Could make a for a very effective compromise....



And congratulations on the purchase.... I have always loved that car, and wondered where it went when it was sold.👍
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·

#941605
Cheers for all the suggestions, will keep working on it, and grow some nuts !! Im under no illusion as to how massive the learning curve is on this, build and drive wise... The guys who I bought the car from had sthe single digit goal, continuation of a theme !!

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#941612
vw54 wrote:Is the car you bought ex US ??
UK I think?
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·

#941618
Yeah Im in NZ. Dave is right, car is out of the Uk. Engine is being put together by Marty Staggs in the US. He built it originally for an unlimited street car, im not intending to push it anywhere near as hard as he was. Building for 5-600 ish HP on E85 ( he was looking for 1000ish HP). Hopefully will have it together by late this year.

Also down here a prostock car (Herbie) ex Sweden has just arrived. Not yet run.

And shameless plug.... My 55 is for sale, looking for around 17k nz pesos complete with 2165 unassembled engine ( flanged crank, pauter rods, wedgies idas), folts gearbox with quaiffe. Was originally an aussie car, bought here in 87. Need to fund the money pit !! Dave Butler has just done the flange conversion in the case- beautiful job !!

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the pr

2,534 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#941661
Nice score!! What sort of cooling system are you going to run to keep it cool on the street? E85 obviously makes a difference temp wise but some sort of oil coolers with dry sump and cooling fan will be needed.
ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE

Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!

55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·

#941683
Running a cooler, dry sump, Porsche fan. A mate has redesigned the top cover of the pauter case so the fan will bolt directly to it.

mactaylor Custom Title Time!

1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#941715
55slug wrote:Running a cooler, dry sump, Porsche fan. A mate has redesigned the top cover of the pauter case so the fan will bolt directly to it.
ooh nice need some pics!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123

LIFE IN THE LOW LANE All people have the right to stupidity but some abuse the pr

2,534 posts · joined Mar 2007 ·

#941779
Yeah some pics of the case mod!! Got a cousin who is putting turbo draw thru carb set up in a split. Autocraft 910 with pauter barrells and case from memory and was investigating a cooling system of sorts last I spoke with him.
ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE

Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!

55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 ·

#941786
Block of alloy and a design at the mo... If there is any interest PM me.

Kiwivw56 Casual Dubber

31 posts · joined Jul 2008 ·

#941845
Hey mate what part of NZ are you from as I'm from around New Plymouth but been in oz for the last 28 years.I have 2 ovals 1 x 56 show,54 drag car with 2387 .look forward to seeing yours