Type I vs Type IV

fuz Slammed & Awesome Dubber

80 posts · joined Aug 2003 · 3 Oct 2003, 10:24 pm

#94857

Does anyone know where i can view information about a type I vs type IV engine? i want to know difference in weight to power output and torque at revs and so on..

i understand that you get greater capacity for less dough from a tIV but im not so worried... i just want to keep the weight down and the BHP/nM up...

ANY help greatly appreciated, even humorous anecdotes..

type82e Wolfsburg Wizard

591 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Oct 2003, 10:34 pm

#94862

type 4 are about 20? kg's heavier are more reliable and make more power stock

but to fit it to a beetle you need an upright kit (about $650+) then custom exhaust also performance parts are harder to get and cost a lot more?

check out this site heaps of info on type4's

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/tech/camshaft.htm
marcel

fuz Slammed & Awesome Dubber

80 posts · joined Aug 2003 · 4 Oct 2003, 5:04 pm

#95056

OK.. wel then thats confused me because i had my vw mechanic tell me that i should not put a type iv in if i could afford it because they are heavier and have less torque.....

anyone else have a link to a comparison page?

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 4 Oct 2003, 5:11 pm

#95061

Hi

You can also find some more info here, http://www.shoptalkforums.com/

1302Steve

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 4 Oct 2003, 6:09 pm

#95076

They have more Horsepower & Torque as they are a modern air cooled engine compared to the very early designed VW Beetle type 1 engine... they are more reliable than a 2L+ type 1 engine.
Parts are $$$$$ and the oil pump is NLA.
A type 1 engine oil pump has to be modified to fit...
Lee

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Black_math Blaupunkt

1,111 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 5 Oct 2003, 1:47 am

#95229

Its worth the money man😀😀:thumb

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 5:02 am

#95236

No they are just too expensive to do up...
i mean Really expensive...
like Porsche expensive....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I have one here and I'll never try to do anything with it...
Lee

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 9:13 am

#95258

I have not yet got my type IV running (to go into my 63 bug project) so can't comment on personal experience re. performance. However they are reported to have a lot more torque than a comparable type I however will not be able to achieve the same outright HP figures (according to the type4rum on shop talk forums). They will be more reliable due to the case material used and will need less line bores. Not sure about the weight, but probably a bit heavier.

Having almost completed the rebuild, yes they are a little more expensive, especially when you have to convert to upright, as well as new exhaust etc...and bearings are a pain in the arse to find. So far my approx costs for the rebuild are:

2nd hand 2L $250
Machining and balancing $800
Adaptor collar for gearbox to convert to later throwout bearing $50
Headwork (convert to 1800 valves, 3 angle valve grind etc) plus lifter resurface $560
Cam regrind $110
Dual dells (40mm) inc linkage $800
Upright conversion including oil lines $700 approx
Gasket kit $90
Assembly $440
215mm flywheel and clutch/pressure plate $150 I think? can't remember

plus new alternator, dizzy etc stuff you may already have.

So basically it would be cheaper to build a type I but then again you can spend a fortune on them. I didn't have to have head work, or balancing, or lightened flywheel etc etc. You could just bolt in a healthy 2L and away you go - just have to pay for the upright kit and exhaust. Hope this info helps. Definitely check out www.shoptalkforums.com - type4rum though.

Alan

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

type82e Wolfsburg Wizard

591 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 1:05 pm

#95304

alan
you havnt mentioned pistons and barrels
or exhaust?
youre over $4k already
but then you pay $6k for a pobjoy 1916?
marcel

amazer kombi pilot

3,187 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 3:42 pm

#95338

68AutoBug wrote:No they are just too expensive to do up...
i mean Really expensive...
like Porsche expensive....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I have one here and I'll never try to do anything with it...
Lee

You're dreaming. GO find yourself a porshe and rebuild it.

You can do budget rebuilds on a type 4 if you only want it stock and your base is reasonable. The bottom ends are good. You'll need a set of heads most likely. But then all you need is a set of bearings, and rings and cam. hone the barrels. reuse the pistons. Reface the lifters. That might bump you up to around $2K. Add labour of course.

I'm in the process of doing mine right now, hoping to come away with a $1500 bill.

I dont think its worth the effort to put one in a beetle though.

Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf

vwrallycar Insano Dub Head

721 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 4:50 pm

#95364

this is the whole reason i decided to watercool my beetle

fuz Slammed & Awesome Dubber

80 posts · joined Aug 2003 · 5 Oct 2003, 6:34 pm

#95395

chris at mick motors showed me a lightened crank case for a type 1 made from what i can only describe as an alloy (very bloody descriptive i know) it was going to be the thing that convinced me into getting a type 1 because i was told it would provide me with abundant torque in comparison to a type 4 equivelant..

i will read the type4rums before i make any more comments/assumptions tho

cheers guys keep the help coming

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Oct 2003, 6:40 pm

#95398

Sorry Marcel, you're right, pistons and cylinders around $600 new for slightly oversize (I think 94.5mm).

Exhaust is yet to come but will be getting a custom made system so there goes another few weeks wages 🙁

Aftermarket exhausts are available from O/S but shipping etc starts to make them out of reach. Supposedly Jake Raby (a renowed type IV builder) says that exhaust design is critical for the type IV engine.

I'm sure there are other costs that I have forgotten though (I have spread it over quite a while to lessen the impact on the wallet). The prices are just to help people, don't quote me on any of them!
Alan

www.dasrestoparts.com.au