grogy Custom Title Time!
1,000 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
hi, will a camber compensator change the existing stationary camber when fitted. thanks greg
camber compensator
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
It can do, depending on the type, and how it is fitted.
The stock 'Z' bar fitted to later Beetles has free travel before the bar takes any weight. If there is no free travel, and the links between the compensator [leaf spring or 'Z' bar] are solid, then any up/down travel will be transferred to the compensator.
If the torsion bars are re-set to lower the car, and the compensator is 'tensioned up' to raise the car to the required ride height, the compensator will then be 'working'.
When the comp.spring is 'working', the roll-resistance will decrease.....and the outside rear wheel will tend to hold its [negative?] camber angle better in a corner.
To avoid getting too complicated, I have avoided getting into the many other factors that can have an effect, such as the front suspension. Hope this helps.
The stock 'Z' bar fitted to later Beetles has free travel before the bar takes any weight. If there is no free travel, and the links between the compensator [leaf spring or 'Z' bar] are solid, then any up/down travel will be transferred to the compensator.
If the torsion bars are re-set to lower the car, and the compensator is 'tensioned up' to raise the car to the required ride height, the compensator will then be 'working'.
When the comp.spring is 'working', the roll-resistance will decrease.....and the outside rear wheel will tend to hold its [negative?] camber angle better in a corner.
To avoid getting too complicated, I have avoided getting into the many other factors that can have an effect, such as the front suspension. Hope this helps.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
grogy Custom Title Time!
1,000 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
thanks happydaze. what do u mean by roll resistance. its a leaf spring type not z bar
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
If you imagine the rear of the car sitting on a very strong leaf comp.spring, and the torsion bars have been removed. There would be NO resistance to body-roll, as the rear end would 'pivot' around the centre spring mount. Formula Vees run ZERO roll resistance on the swing-axle rear, often using a coil instead of a leaf spring or 'Z' bar.
An anti-roll bar does exactly the opposite.....it resists body-roll, as its name suggests [without supporting any weight].
An anti-roll bar does exactly the opposite.....it resists body-roll, as its name suggests [without supporting any weight].
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
grogy Custom Title Time!
1,000 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
thanks, so in u post u have negative in brackets , n say it holds it camber better...... u mean it resists the negative? that is the leaf spring effect is exerting pressure in an upward motion trying to make the tyre stay in a positive position
vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk
2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·
The swayaway camber compensator is a negitive spring also, it preloads the axels towards negitive camber, this also helps with a better ride, if you want to get the car to handle better you can decamber it and run about 1 to 1.5 degrees of negitive camber, the swayaway style of camber compensator does not increase the spring rate.
grogy Custom Title Time!
1,000 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
thanks for the info.... just so i understand ; positive camber when the wheels are tucked in at the top and angled out at the bottom, so the rear of the
car is in effect lowered
car is in effect lowered
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
Don't like to sound negative, but you've got that completely arse-about, Greg.😂
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
grogy Custom Title Time!
1,000 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
yea its hard to undersand when u interpreting words incorrectly, very negative haha,..... now i will r read it , n it make more sense
sander288 "Bolt-on Master"
1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·
Pictures always help; I put a camber comp on my bug a couple of years back now and the difference it made was huge. 👍👍
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
That's a lot better than trying to interpret 4000 words.👍
So the spring is still working.😏
So the spring is still working.😏
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
greg do you use a camber compensator? if i remebor you do but it aint no normal bought one! when i had a swing axle dub i found that driving style was more important than a shity camber compensator!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
1800 552 123
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Not much of a standard swing VW left in Gregs car anymore !
sander288 "Bolt-on Master"
1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·
Yep spring still going strong! It's seems to be fairly well made 🥷HappyDaze wrote:That's a lot better than trying to interpret 4000 words.👍
So the spring is still working.😏
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
Yes, No, 8 Beetle has a comp, spring, which supports around 3/4 of the rear weight. The other 1/4 is via coil-overs.....torsion bars and spring plates are no more.mactaylor wrote:greg do you use a camber compensator? if i remebor you do but it aint no normal bought one! when i had a swing axle dub i found that driving style was more important than a shity camber compensator!
The swing-axles are located by trailing arms, pivoting in line with the axle fulcrum, keeping bump steer to a minimum. A cable attached to the axles maintains negative camber, but allows full travel on 'roll'. To complete the deal, there is an anti-roll bar.
A 'spool' in the diff. [thanks again, Henry] improves traction out of corners......but means a whole new driving style. 356 drums provide the stopping power.
The front suspension is an early beam [adjustable, and caster wedges added], stock torsion bars, and Koni shocks. The link pins are now rod ends, which allows adjustment for camber [lots of negative]. The 'Mackie Strut' prevents the lower trailing arm from flexing inwards, helping to maintain neg. camber. A 25mm anti-roll bar is fitted. Again, 356 drum brakes.
I have modified the steering to try to reduce bump-steer, and now have equal length tie rods.
Hopefully the 'new' 2276 motor [ex Ben Robinson] will make it even more fun to drive.........I'll find out in a couple of weeks time, at the Nationals Supersprints.👍
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
Is ok if I post pics of your set up Greg ?.....
HappyDaze Superannuated
2,887 posts · joined Jun 2009 ·
Sure, Daimo.....and thanks for asking first.hellbugged wrote:Is ok if I post pics of your set up Greg ?.....
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
oldtub356 Seriously Crusin Dubber
139 posts · joined Dec 2009 ·
"The 'Mackie Strut' prevents the lower trailing arm from flexing inwards, helping to maintain neg. camber."
Aaand, here was me thinking that the 'Mackie Strut' was a Scottish dance, performed when old guys got lucky.
Sanders diagram does simplify the understanding of operation of the Porsche COMPENSATOR Spring - but, I would argue that the springs sold through after market
VeeDub retailers, while named 'COMPENSATOR' are in fact quite different in operation.
I recommend that anyone with the LinkPin/SwingArm affliction, keep a good eye on what is happening here🙁you don't need to be a member to 'Search')
http://www.porsche356registry.org/356talk/1.html
These guys have been arguing about this stuff constantly for 40 years. For example, recently:
http://www.porsche356registry.org/356talk/search.html?keywords=compensator+racing&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
I have found that opinions about SwingAxle set-ups are a bit like talking about religion...the only thing that each religion agrees on... is that all of the others are wrong.
Aaand, here was me thinking that the 'Mackie Strut' was a Scottish dance, performed when old guys got lucky.
Sanders diagram does simplify the understanding of operation of the Porsche COMPENSATOR Spring - but, I would argue that the springs sold through after market
VeeDub retailers, while named 'COMPENSATOR' are in fact quite different in operation.
I recommend that anyone with the LinkPin/SwingArm affliction, keep a good eye on what is happening here🙁you don't need to be a member to 'Search')
http://www.porsche356registry.org/356talk/1.html
These guys have been arguing about this stuff constantly for 40 years. For example, recently:
http://www.porsche356registry.org/356talk/search.html?keywords=compensator+racing&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
I have found that opinions about SwingAxle set-ups are a bit like talking about religion...the only thing that each religion agrees on... is that all of the others are wrong.
vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk
2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·
Exactly, if you take the question asked by grogy it will depend on what after market compensator you are talking about, i had one made down the gold coast which was a empi rip off, made the car ride like a dray and preloaded the axels towards positive camber, the swayaway style improves the ride and adds negitive camber. both of these are available over the counter to mere mortals who just want a bolt on device.
mactaylor Custom Title Time!
1,005 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·
thanx greg looking forward to the photos!HappyDaze wrote:Yes, No, 8 Beetle has a comp, spring, which supports around 3/4 of the rear weight. The other 1/4 is via coil-overs.....torsion bars and spring plates are no more.mactaylor wrote:greg do you use a camber compensator? if i remebor you do but it aint no normal bought one! when i had a swing axle dub i found that driving style was more important than a shity camber compensator!
The swing-axles are located by trailing arms, pivoting in line with the axle fulcrum, keeping bump steer to a minimum. A cable attached to the axles maintains negative camber, but allows full travel on 'roll'. To complete the deal, there is an anti-roll bar.
A 'spool' in the diff. [thanks again, Henry] improves traction out of corners......but means a whole new driving style. 356 drums provide the stopping power.
The front suspension is an early beam [adjustable, and caster wedges added], stock torsion bars, and Koni shocks. The link pins are now rod ends, which allows adjustment for camber [lots of negative]. The 'Mackie Strut' prevents the lower trailing arm from flexing inwards, helping to maintain neg. camber. A 25mm anti-roll bar is fitted. Again, 356 drum brakes.
I have modified the steering to try to reduce bump-steer, and now have equal length tie rods.
Hopefully the 'new' 2276 motor [ex Ben Robinson] will make it even more fun to drive.........I'll find out in a couple of weeks time, at the Nationals Supersprints.👍
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
1800 552 123
matberry Moderator Go hard or go home
8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·
^^ As will I, sounds like Greg has turned his sedan into a Vee. 🙂mactaylor wrote:thanx greg looking forward to the photos!HappyDaze wrote:Yes, No, 8 Beetle has a comp, spring, which supports around 3/4 of the rear weight. The other 1/4 is via coil-overs.....torsion bars and spring plates are no more.mactaylor wrote:greg do you use a camber compensator? if i remebor you do but it aint no normal bought one! when i had a swing axle dub i found that driving style was more important than a shity camber compensator!
The swing-axles are located by trailing arms, pivoting in line with the axle fulcrum, keeping bump steer to a minimum. A cable attached to the axles maintains negative camber, but allows full travel on 'roll'. To complete the deal, there is an anti-roll bar.
A 'spool' in the diff. [thanks again, Henry] improves traction out of corners......but means a whole new driving style. 356 drums provide the stopping power.
The front suspension is an early beam [adjustable, and caster wedges added], stock torsion bars, and Koni shocks. The link pins are now rod ends, which allows adjustment for camber [lots of negative]. The 'Mackie Strut' prevents the lower trailing arm from flexing inwards, helping to maintain neg. camber. A 25mm anti-roll bar is fitted. Again, 356 drum brakes.
I have modified the steering to try to reduce bump-steer, and now have equal length tie rods.
Hopefully the 'new' 2276 motor [ex Ben Robinson] will make it even more fun to drive.........I'll find out in a couple of weeks time, at the Nationals Supersprints.👍
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
sander288 "Bolt-on Master"
1,404 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·
I'm keen to see the front link pin conversion to rod ends! 😁
For what it's worth here's a shot of my comp spring that a clever person made for me; the only change I've made is adding threaded rod instead of 1/2 bolts so that I can add more pre-load onto the spring and let the back lean a bit more; working on the front....
and for proof that they can work exceptionally well; here is me at wakefield with stock beetle followed by stock beetle with rear height tweak and comp spring; see the difference? 👍👍👍
For what it's worth here's a shot of my comp spring that a clever person made for me; the only change I've made is adding threaded rod instead of 1/2 bolts so that I can add more pre-load onto the spring and let the back lean a bit more; working on the front....
and for proof that they can work exceptionally well; here is me at wakefield with stock beetle followed by stock beetle with rear height tweak and comp spring; see the difference? 👍👍👍
hellbugged 48's and straight cuts
5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
pics over on the "No.8" thread in circuit racing section