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General surface rust hints?

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HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#964529
Hey, I am very new here and wondering what kind of things should i do to general surface rust inside and outside the Kombi?

If you could be very simple/clear with any advice i would muchly appreciate it, im young and have not worked on a car before so everything will be a first for me 😀

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#964570
Depends what you want to do. Post some photos up would help.
Do you want to get rid of the rust and paint over?
Or do you like the rust and want to stop it progressing further whilst keeping the patina?
If it is the latter there are 2 commonly used products. Penatrol available at the hardware or commercial build paint supplies.
It leaves a glossy finish but soaks into the rust and stop further oxygen getting in.
Or there is Ancor Wax. Available from justkampersaust or busnbug.
It seels the rust from air and provides a matt fi ish unless polished.
It has to be fully removed to paint later but so does the rust.
It provided the really rich depth that the really nice rat bugs and busses roll in.
Both are internal and external.
1966 Aussie 11 Window

HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#964930
I'd really prefer to get rid of the surface rust altogether if possible. I can't really get photos for another week at most.

What advice would you give? Also, thank you very much on reply 🙂

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#964944
Cut and strip.disk on a grinder. Take it back to bare metal.
Cut out any rust and weld in new matal.
Rust converter then water to nuetralise.
Then metho to get rid of water followed by air blasting to dry.
Then wax and grease remover before body filler, high build primer, fine filler, primer, paint.
Plus lots of sanding.

Bit more work huh!
1966 Aussie 11 Window

HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#964946
Hahaha, all worth it I imagine! Thanks a lot for the help, are there any brands of filler/rust neutriliser/primer you would recommend? Or is it all more or less the same?

Also, do you think I could just get it back to bare metal and leave the priming/filling/painting until its all done?

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#964979
68BUS wrote:Cut and strip.disk on a grinder. Take it back to bare metal.
Cut out any rust and weld in new matal.
Rust converter then water to nuetralise.
Then metho to get rid of water followed by air blasting to dry.
Then wax and grease remover before body filler, high build primer, fine filler, primer, paint.
Plus lots of sanding.

Bit more work huh!
thats an under statement.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#964981
To be honest, it is too hard to recommend any brands. What you are better off doing is working out who you want to buy off. Near me there are 3 auto paint places. One deals to the big buyers, one is not helpful and one is happy to discuss the process as you go.
Makes the choice easy.
Then work out if you have acrylic or 2pac. If it is original paint then it will be arcylic.
Then work out if you want cheap materials or the best stuff. And get them to help you select products that are both easy to use and compatible with one another.

And take it slow.

Don;t forget though that if you are doing rust work. Bare metal starts to rust immediately. So even buy some cheap spraypacks of primer. Do your rust work and then give it a spray. Then when your ready to do filler buff the primer off and start the full process. Kombi's are big. So work one panel at a time. Watch as many videos as you can (keep in mind that most you tube posters are morons so take with a pinch of salt).
The best online instructions I have founds are here.
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

Good luck.
Acrylic is more forgiving for a first timer too. It dries quicker, easier to buff out stuff ups, and it is far less likely to kill you.
A good acrylic job will last almost as long as a 2pac job too. But a good sprayer gets a close to perfect finish off 2pac. Hence its use. Less sanding.

Oh, did I say sanding..... You will be good at soon😁
1966 Aussie 11 Window

HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#964993
Thanks! Unbelievably helpful! Wont be long until I'm asking for mechanical advice 😀

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#965004
I think mechanical is probably easier.
reason being that people will happily offer to come round and give you a hand over a couple of beers.
Never in the history of car restoration has someone said "I will come over and help you sand if you want".....😂
1966 Aussie 11 Window

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#965490
68BUS wrote:I think mechanical is probably easier.
reason being that people will happily offer to come round and give you a hand over a couple of beers.
Never in the history of car restoration has someone said "I will come over and help you sand if you want".....😂
too right, mechanical is a piece of piss, as for electrical, upholstery not so bad, body work (cut weld, lead fill, hammer and dolly) much more labor intensive but ok, paint an absolute nightmare. its hard to get right. so better start practicing!

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#965496
Ahahaha, right, are you referring to the actual painting of the kombi? or just applying the filler/smoothing it? I plan on getting it painted and perhaps even prepped at a shop (only once i get everything else done AND have the money)

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#965552
HendrikO wrote:Ahahaha, right, are you referring to the actual painting of the kombi? or just applying the filler/smoothing it? I plan on getting it painted and perhaps even prepped at a shop (only once i get everything else done AND have the money)
actual paint, primer top and where used clear coat.

straight colors are not too bad but still lots of practice and advice from people who do painting. metallic and clear coats are by far the hardest imho.

and when painting there is a millions things you must be conscious of.

Like,
surface finish
paint compatibility
gun type
gun setting
compressor
temperature
humidity
air movement
dust
insects 😬
don't touch the surface with your hands
how you wipe the surface with prep wash
what rags you use
hand eye coordination
lighting
time after coats
time between coats
coat thickness
coat over lap
coat direction
which panels to spray together
which masking tape to use

blah blah and the list goes on.

body work is easy to painting I reckon, you need a feel for it and it takes time and many paint jobs to acquire that feel.

easiest paint to lean is solid color acrylic, it can always be fine sanded and cut and polished to perfection. metalic and 2pak are those you must get right at the gun.

yes I would recommend getting the body done yourself and a shop to do the final prep and paint.

Looks like I am going this way as well as I can't afford to mess it up after spending all year doing body work and removing the wrong primer I applied lol And I have done good body work, dolly and hammer, lead and weld the old school way.

look ma, no bog 😂

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

matberry Moderator Go hard or go home

8,114 posts · joined Mar 2006 ·

#965591
Good post Vlad.

as you say, and there's more.

In the early stages of repair, it is most critical to be removing all the rust effected metal. The number of "rust repaired" cars I've re-repaired due to either not getting it all or not treating both sides of the panel, anywhere there has been welding, there is no longer coatings for a good 30mm or so. The bare metal, any slightly corroded steel and in the seams need treating as you go, also weld through primer inside the parts as you put them together is a good way to go
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE

HendrikO Casual Dubber

23 posts · joined Jul 2013 ·

#965594
Ahah, amazed with the amount of help on here 🙂 thank you all so much! As an estimate, very very roughly, how much would fixing just surface rust on a Kombi? Talking minimum/maximum kind of figures, im not expecting an exact number.

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#965602
What about spray guns for the first timer,and also I have read you need a different gun for topcoat and primer???

Thanks Fabo...

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#965612
You can get a good gun set for about $100. Of ebay is fine. There are sets with 3 tips. 1.4/1.6/1.8 i think.
Buy a 20ltr drum of cheap thinners (different to paint thinners).
Clean you gun to brand new after every use and a cheap gun will see a couple of busses.

And as far as estimate. Who knows.
Post some photos.
Rust is normally 3times as bad on the side you cant see.

A good paint job on a new car will cost from 2-10k. A lot of hours go into a good one.
Throw rust in the works and that could be 2-15k.
And if you want to di it right add in 1.5-3k for abrasive blasting to get started.
1966 Aussie 11 Window

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#965699
cnfabo wrote:What about spray guns for the first timer,and also I have read you need a different gun for topcoat and primer???

Thanks Fabo...
I have been recommended Star S2000 or S770

The S2000 is the new updated model, its better than the S770

I have a knock off of the S770, its alright but the genuine Star brand is better than any copy of course.

also buy 2, one for primer the other for top.

about 120 buck is all they cost. btw its the recommended gun for acrylic, other models are more for 2 pak.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#965700
matberry wrote:Good post Vlad.

as you say, and there's more.

In the early stages of repair, it is most critical to be removing all the rust effected metal. The number of "rust repaired" cars I've re-repaired due to either not getting it all or not treating both sides of the panel, anywhere there has been welding, there is no longer coatings for a good 30mm or so. The bare metal, any slightly corroded steel and in the seams need treating as you go, also weld through primer inside the parts as you put them together is a good way to go
the No.1 factor for re-rusting, is drainage/ventilation.

Vw plus most pre 90s cars are just shocking for it, if you were to do the same on a newer car, cut paste and weld without priming the other side it would take a long time to rust through as the environment for rust almost doesn't exist in a new car, they are designed well in that accept.

So in a VW you must combat this lack of design with sealing everything.

Its too bad EPD services don't exist for car restores in oz. that would be the best.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

68BUS Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Jul 2011 ·

#965703
cnfabo wrote:What about spray guns for the first timer,and also I have read you need a different gun for topcoat and primer???

Thanks Fabo...
Now I am on a big computer it is easier.
I have this gun set.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Workquip-3-TIP-SET-UP-Gravity-Spray-Gun-STAND-Paint-/170645722030?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27bb4713ae&_uhb=1
Cheap and cheerful but does a good job and I have kept it clean so it should last for a while.
The stand is a bit dicky. I weight it down with a lump hammer, but if you wanted to splash out then this would be good
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GRAVITY-SPRAY-GUN-HOLDER-MAGNETIC-PAINT-SHOP-SPRAY-/120768866945?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1e62aa81&_uhb=1

I personally found gravity guns better than suction type with the pot at the bottom too.
1966 Aussie 11 Window

AndrewB Seriously Crusin Dubber

141 posts · joined Jun 2011 ·

#965788
Suction guns are a thing of the past,
Its all gravity now (although the wrist fatigue after doing a whole car with a gravity gun is worse than waving around a suction haha),
and yep different guns for different apps.
I have a few sata and devilbiss gravity guns, they are great guns.
I was given a cheap no brand gravity gun a few months back and its not bad, but you absolutely notice the difference in finish after using the more expensive guns.
Also have a no brand spray putty gun, only used it once, but it sprayed ok.
I have used star gravity guns in the past, they are not bad at all.
Keep your equipment clean and they will last a fair while (and if the gun you buy uses filters in the pot, DONT try and wash and reuse like i have seen people do! lol).

All that is well and good, but you also need a decent size compressor to back up whatever gun you choose.
Then you have the moisture issue, I personally have always had a lot of water in my tank, so i use a regulator/separator and disposable water traps.

As for that magnetic spray gun holder above, dont bother with it, you can go to bunnings or the dollar shop and buy an 'assorted garage hook kit', or singles, they have those fork shaped holders in them, they were designed for garden tools, you can use the other hooks in the kits for holding tape lol.

My 2cents

Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile

1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#972831
68BUS wrote:
cnfabo wrote:What about spray guns for the first timer,and also I have read you need a different gun for topcoat and primer???

Thanks Fabo...
Now I am on a big computer it is easier.
I have this gun set.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Workquip-3-TIP-SET-UP-Gravity-Spray-Gun-STAND-Paint-/170645722030?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27bb4713ae&_uhb=1
Cheap and cheerful but does a good job and I have kept it clean so it should last for a while.
The stand is a bit dicky. I weight it down with a lump hammer, but if you wanted to splash out then this would be good
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GRAVITY-SPRAY-GUN-HOLDER-MAGNETIC-PAINT-SHOP-SPRAY-/120768866945?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1e62aa81&_uhb=1

I personally found gravity guns better than suction type with the pot at the bottom too.
Painted *most of* my car base, primer and clear 2k with that ebay set. worked REALLY well for me 🙂 next time i'll put the primer on under the basecoat so I can see the colour 🙂 will post pics of it when it's finished 🙂
let sleeping dubs lie