Hello everyone!
I live up here in the hot tropics, and was looking for suggestions on extra cooling....
My Bug has no cooling vents on the decklid, and is running a 2100cc motor.
I have a bigger oil sump, with an external oil cooler attached.
I've had stand-offs before, but with all the rain we get up here (sporadically) it caused a lot of rain to enter the engine bay. This caused rust, hard starts and already wrecked one alternator.
I was thinking of cutting some vents, but was looking for some advice...???? 🙄
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
Fit a temp guage first. You external cooler may be good enough.
Otherwise fit a fan to the cooler as a 2nd step.
When you say it has no vents - do you litrally mean no vents??
There mush be something unless there was a run of water cooled bugs out there.
1966 Aussie 11 Window
68BUS wrote:Fit a temp guage first. You external cooler may be good enough.
That may keep the oil cool but not the heads.
if you don't wanna prop open the top or fit a vented decklid you can always prop open the bottom, not ideal as it can recirculate hot air but it does let a little more air in.
Sorry.....it has no vents on the decklid, as its a '68.
I was thinking of cutting the current decklid, but it may be more feasible (and less expensive?) to just get a newer decklid with the vents already there.
Would there be any problems with the fitting of an earlier decklid on a '68 Bug?
I was thinking of a fan, but people have said it would redirect the heat back to the engine...
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
WHat kind of remote cooler have you got and where's it mounted?
I don't really know what kind of oil cooler it is, but I did get it from a reputable dealer, for performance engines.
As for the location, its on the floorpan, halfway up the car (outside, of course), so the air goes directly on it. I ran some high-temp hoses back to the engine. It has good air flow, but just am a little worried without the vents.
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
I cut holes under the number plate and nose
Hard to see that it has been done and could be enough air coming in
Also stops water coming in if you have your ventless early lid
Futue te ipsum!!!
Thi is the rain louvre I use
Works well in HEAVY down pours
and these are the turbo tops
I dont use these now as the louvre works good enough to keep the water out
Futue te ipsum!!!
wesdem77 wrote:I don't really know what kind of oil cooler it is, but I did get it from a reputable dealer, for performance engines.
As for the location, its on the floorpan, halfway up the car (outside, of course), so the air goes directly on it. I ran some high-temp hoses back to the engine. It has good air flow, but just am a little worried without the vents.
Thats ok, just wanted to make sure you didnt have it in the engine bay.
You would be amazed how many people do that then crack the shits cos their engine runs hotter than before they added the cooler
🤪You could mount the oil cooler right up the front of the car. Plenty running like that
Popping the bottom of the lid works a treat. More air for the fan and carbs without the weather scooping in
That's a good idea, Bizarre....lots of air going in!!
Yeah, I was thinking of popping the bottom out.....somebody told me to use a tennis ball !
Maybe fixing up some metal pieces to bring it out a couple of inches would work, bolting them on or something...
Ah, the joys of air-cooled! That's what I get for modifying a great design
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
if you want a stand off - contact Craig Torrens
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=96229
You can still lock your lid
Futue te ipsum!!!
Thanks Bizarre, I PM'd Craig, hopefully he still has some...
I appreciate all the advice from everyone. Its always nice to solve problems with the VW family forum 😵
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
I have followed Barry (Bizarre) through the traffic, the slots he has are very inconspicuous, if you didnt know he did it you wouldnt that they are there. Rain Louvre looks good too 8)
1960 11 Window
I love the rain deflectors and run one on my L. But on a hot day they can keep a bit of heat in. The fitting instructions say to take it off if it's over 30°c. I store mine behind my back seat under my speaker shelf when we have long hot streaks with no rain.
Question for OP. Do you know for sure your engine is getting too hot? Or are you just being safe? You might be running at quite a good temperature already with your cooler and extra capacity. Maybe pick up a laser thermometer and check it after a drive on a warm day? Food for thought if you haven't checked your temps yet 🙂
Isola wrote:I love the rain deflectors and run one on my L. But on a hot day they can keep a bit of heat in. The fitting instructions say to take it off if it's over 30°c. I store mine behind my back seat under my speaker shelf when we have long hot streaks with no rain.
Question for OP. Do you know for sure your engine is getting too hot? Or are you just being safe? You might be running at quite a good temperature already with your cooler and extra capacity. Maybe pick up a laser thermometer and check it after a drive on a warm day? Food for thought if you haven't checked your temps yet 🙂
That is just the company that makes them covering their arse.
The vents in the decklid let cool air
in not hot air out.
In bugs and Kombis the engine bay is sealed off from underneath so the fan is only drawing in cool air from the top side through those vents, all the heat is sealed out the under side.
The big problem is people panic about oil temps and throw external oil coolers at them all the time with zero f#$%s given about head temps.
starving a doghouse fan for air with a non vented lid and keeping the oil cool with an external cooler is great way to bump up headtemps and not know it without a head temp gauge, especially around this time of year in Cairns.
^^ yep, and cracked heads is the result !!
Put a 4 vent lid on or get more air in some how because the heads will run hot the first time it's driven any significant distance.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Joel and Mat,
if I am reading it correctly, you are saying that not having a vented deck lid will result in engine over heating and cracked heads ????
Firstly, I don't have a head temperature sensor on my car so I don't know their temps when running. But being a 61 model Beetle there are no vents in deck lid and my motor is not standard. I do have larger sump and external oil filter, but that's it.
Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle ❓
Cheers, Kev
I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!
Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.Kev, maybe not worried, but be aware that a big motor gulps a lot more air than the 40hp motor that the air intake was designed for.....which can mean 'starving' the poor old cooling fan of air.
After cutting a hole each rear 1/4 panel [where the rain gutter meets the rear guard], and fitting air scoops [old front blinker covers], the oil temp. dropped 15 deg.C. Cool air [not warm air from behind the engine] will help cool the motor. As I didn't have a cyl. head temp. gauge then, I don't know [don't want to think about?] what happened there.🙄
Last time out at Wakefield Park, the oil temp. was 90 deg.C, while cyl. head temp. was 350 deg.F. My motor is now 2276cc & 11.5 : 1 comp. Not mucking about, either....1m 12.6sec.
Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Camo wrote:Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle ❓
Cheers, Kev
I would be.
I won't fit a wide fan cooling system to an early engine bay without providing more air intakes to any of mine or my customer cars. I feel that strongly about it. On my new engine builds, I also do a lot of other things to the cooling system, but I want them to last for 100's of thousands of kilometers.
Greg, not only is the engine consuming more air being larger in capacity and higher reving, but the wide doghouse fan is also 20% larger in capacity.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Camo wrote:Joel and Mat,
if I am reading it correctly, you are saying that not having a vented deck lid will result in engine over heating and cracked heads ????
Firstly, I don't have a head temperature sensor on my car so I don't know their temps when running. But being a 61 model Beetle there are no vents in deck lid and my motor is not standard. I do have larger sump and external oil filter, but that's it.
Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle ❓
Cheers, Kev
Agree with Matt above it is something I would address too given the $$ involved and increased air supply demands with an engine like yours.
Cracked heads would be one of the worser case scenarios.
It only becomes a problem once the fan RPMs get above the point that it is sucking in more air than what the stock vents can supply, at what RPMs that happens though is anyones guess though.
Twin carbs add to the problem with the extra air they draw in too.
Just round town driving you probably wouldnt notice any real problem but at motorway speeds where revs consistanlty sit around 3K or more it would possibly start getting toasty in there.
VW went 2 vents when doghouse cooling started then 4 vents the following year and kept going, the vent under the number plate light like Barrys came in late 74.
Decklid vents tend to spoil the clean lines of the earlier Beetles but there are other ways around it.
Hidden under the number plate like Bizarres, or Daimo did have air scoops either side of his gearbox with hoses coming up into the engine bay through the firewall tin.
The decklid can be propped open a bit at the bottom but I'm not wrapped in that idea as it would allow for hot air to be recirculated off the heads and muffler.
When I had my old 1835 and 1776 motors with doghouse cooling and dual twin throat Webers, even with my 4 vent lid in summer I used to see 10-15f oil temp drops on the motorway with stand offs on.
Hate to think what a non vented lid would have been like
Wow. I didn't realise that about the vents. Cheers for the info guys!
Does that mean that it's safe enough to leave my deflector on all time time?
Wow, that makes a lot more sense why you both push the extra deck lid vents - Thanks.
I might put a couple of these type access ports in and have a vented cover. Will serve several purposes, access to spark plugs, allow more air into engine compartment and working on carbies etc.
Thanks again, Kev
I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!
Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.Kev
Those Weber windows need covers.
The amount of water that comes in through the wheel well by driving through deep puddles is amazing
The filters are right next door.
I just have 2 off 25 mm holes each side and I can flood the filters with them.
Futue te ipsum!!!
Bizarre wrote:Kev
Those Weber windows need covers.
The amount of water that comes in through the wheel well by driving through deep puddles is amazing
The filters are right next door.
I just have 2 off 25 mm holes each side and I can flood the filters with them.
Good thinking Baz, I could face the vents rearwards and that should stop water coming off the wheels or running down from top of guard and entering. Also, I wouldn't do this at this stage but when I turbo it. But I will keep it in mind for the air filter placement when the time comes.
Cheers, Kev
EDIT: Before Ian or Rose put shit on me, I would just like to do it myself and add that it wont be driven in the rain unless I get caught whilst out
😂 😂😂😂😂I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!
Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.
i have a louvered decklid to combat the heat.. its amazing the difference in temp.
i have a few of those temp sensor dipsticks available too to give you an idea of highway heat rises.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=92996
Great suggestions everyone!!
I really don't want to do bodywork for the scoops, but will try to locate a vented decklid like Esevwbits (is that custom?? did you cut them yourself?)
I just picked the car up from the Gold Coast, and took two days to drive up to Cairns...1,800km! I stopped in Mick Motors and attached some stand-offs before I left, and they definately did the trick! The engine kept cooler than I was used to, when it was in the Super bug.
No problems at all (well, besides the speedo stopping on me)...but, that's life of a vw fanatic. Met some great people along the way, loving VWs!!👍 Even some old-school bikers were impressed with the sound of the engine!
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
The air coming out and the direction it takes is just as important as air coming in. The sum of all the little parts add up. Install as much of the stock tin piece's as possible, if you haven't already. Those often missing little rear deflection tins at the rear cylinders, thermostat flaps even if they are just wired open as they direct cooling air correctly over the heads/cylinders, tins under the cylinders between the pushrods, hoover bit and running industrial tins if you are using j tubes. Even installing a FI shroud venturi ring has shown to help the cooling system. That combined with the external cooler should have that puppy running well even on the hottest days.
^^^^ can I ask what you mean by the air coming out??
The air coming in either disappears into the the fan shrowd and goes out over the motor and heater boxes or it is swallowed up by the carbs
Futue te ipsum!!!
Haha, I mean air comes in the engine bay then fan. Then air goes out the shroud around the motor directed by tinware's. The point being gains in cooling efficiency can be had by correctly directing the air out. Apologies if I was not clear.
