A/C Engine sprayed with water vapor to cool it

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 · 17 Oct 2013, 5:48 pm

#972970

Just found this on another site and wondered if anyone hear had ever attempted it. Basically they did this back in 1973 on an air cooled porsche.

They spray water at the air cooling fan and the water vapors greatly cool the cylinders down via contact and also cools the air down.

Anyway, have a read and see what you think > http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/150982-water-vapor-cooled-911-rubbermaid-solution.html

Obviously this is probably more related to turbo engines or very high compression motors. Maybe have it set up to start spraying at a set temperature.

Kev

I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 17 Oct 2013, 6:14 pm

#972971

turbo motors you spray the water inside the motor , into the inlet manifold 😊 keeps the carbon off the valves etc toooo

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 · 17 Oct 2013, 6:23 pm

#972974

ian.mezz wrote:turbo motors you spray the water inside the motor , into the inlet manifold 😊 keeps the carbon off the valves etc toooo

Hi Ian,

yeah I know all the benefits of water injection into manifolds when turbo and I think it is a good thing especially if you don't have an inter-cooler, but there are some out there whom are against it.

But as mentioned in my first post, this can be for high performance non turbo engines and used as a backup safety device if engine gets stinking hot. Although I'm not sure how much it would cool the heads down, more so the cylinders which I guess are connected to the heads (obviously 🤪).

Kev 😁

I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 17 Oct 2013, 6:28 pm

#972975

evaporative coolers work that way i guess it has to work

Keeping it real !

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 17 Oct 2013, 6:36 pm

#972977

in the 80s we just plug the windscreen washer bottle in and let the motor suck it in 🤪

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 · 18 Oct 2013, 8:37 am

#973016

yes this would work well from what I gather.

I tried this before on high performance PCs, on external radiators into the fan and the temp drops a lot.

Also a proven technique on front mount ATA intercoolers on cars. Couple of water jet nozzles at the front sprays onto the intercooler. The air/mist mix is drawn through the intercooler.

Moist air has much larger heat capacity over dry air. Fine droplets hitting the surface and evaporating has an even greater effect on top of that as well.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Gracey Wolfsburg Wizard

511 posts · joined Feb 2003 · 18 Oct 2013, 1:00 pm

#973046

A guy on here has done this, Modrod from memory.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 18 Oct 2013, 1:25 pm

#973050

I have done a spray setup onto the oil cooler............I have also done the same with my Evo X's SST (transmission) cooler, with great results 👍

I'm also experimenting with water vapor cooling ventilated discs 😉

I've never tried into the vw fan though, but it should work well.

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 19 Oct 2013, 7:11 am

#973113

So basically, a water cooled VW

Keeping it real !

nils Fahrvergnugen

971 posts · joined Jan 2008 · 19 Oct 2013, 7:36 am

#973116

I bought a kombi about 10 or so years ago, it had a irrigationfitting drilled in on each side, near the base of the fan shroud. it had head temp gauge and would knock close to 50'C off when turned on.
definatly works. just a pain to top up water all the time

Quit calling rust patina

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2013, 11:55 am

#973144

Hi Kev
apart from spraying water onto Your cylinders and heads
which will turn into steam anyway when the engine is at a normal running temperature..
I think its a great idea..
have the water spray to a very fine mist so not using a lot of water.. Great on a 40C++ day...

another one above the driver would also be good... lol..😂

I read all the posts etc You mentioned Kev.. but as usual, some were talking about spraying internally [water injection] and others about external spraying... on intercoolers etc

One fellow said His engine had two water jets in the fan housing that sprayed onto the fan...
You can get adjustable garden plastic sprays and sprays for different spraying patterns [or degrees]... so, lots of things to try...
[I;ve already tried all the different sprays in My Wife's garden ]
😂

I first heard about water sprays onto intercoolers. about 14 years ago, when watching Cars in the Australian Rally championship starting..... while waiting to Go, a Mitsubishi Lancer had water dripping from under the front of the car, I told the driver, who told Me that he had a tank of water in the boot, and he had switched on the water spray on the inter cooler..
He also had a big switch on the dash, that switched the idle speed UP... to 3000-4000rpm..??? I can't remember what it was.. maybe higher...??

Lee

PS: I thought those plastic bags that were made to carry water were a neat idea.. but they used 12 Occy straps to hold the bag down??? [elastic straps with hooks on both ends] Lee

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

bajachris88 The international telephone dialing code for Antarctica is 6

6,661 posts · joined Apr 2005 · 19 Oct 2013, 2:41 pm

#973169

You don't want to gush alot in a hurry, as you want a consistant spray stream across the barrels and heads for even cooling.

You hear the stories of buggy guys driving a hot motor through water crossings and cracking the case due to the sudden change in temperature on 1 side of the engine (such as bottom side). The metal doesn't contract consistently from the uneven 'coolness' distribution.

What would be cool is a thermo-relay tapped into a cylinder head temp sensor. 👍 And i guess if you have it spraying into the fan inlet instead of directly at the cylinder heads, the fan will chew it up and distribute it evenly perhaps.

(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Oct 2013, 9:45 pm

#973203

Yes,
it would need to be a very fine mist of water...
so, it behaves like air inside the fan shroud...

have You seen those pedestal fans that spray a fine mist of water?? I saw them last summer.. maybe at bunnings??
and the fine mist doesn't wet you either...
they only hold about a litre of water..

You would only need to spray water in the fan shroud when its about 33C or over...

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 20 Oct 2013, 8:36 am

#973213

Hi

The secret with any water spray is to have complete vaporisation of the water. So you need high pressure with a fine spray

Any moisture around the spark plugs would be a problem.

Steve

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 20 Oct 2013, 10:09 am

#973222

if you want the real mechanics of it google up "adiabatic cooling"
Actually you want "dry" adiabatic cooling
The finer and drier the mist - the better it works
We have used it on air cooled air conditioning systems for ages.

Yes - you can put a hose on your air conditioner but a dry fine mist works so much better

Futue te ipsum!!!

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 20 Oct 2013, 10:55 am

#973225

1303Steve wrote:Hi

The secret with any water spray is to have complete vaporisation of the water. So you need high pressure with a fine spray

Any moisture around the spark plugs would be a problem.

Steve

The polyurethane boots on My spark plugs go right over the top of the spark plug sealing the electrode, so I can hose it and nothing happens...
but We are talking about a virtually dry very fine mist of water
as You say Steve, high pressure, with a very fine nozzle..
Lee

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, if You could fill all 4 tyres up with water, and then use the water for the engine mister , You could drive around the country... but getting the water out of the tyres while mobile.... while not impossible...??
along with the fact that Your tyres would go right out of balance as the water was used up... 😂
so, maybe 2 or 3 shock absorbers would be needed for the out of balance wheels.. 😂

now back to the drawing board...

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 20 Oct 2013, 11:00 am

#973226

Bizarre wrote:if you want the real mechanics of it google up "adiabatic cooling"
Actually you want "dry" adiabatic cooling
The finer and drier the mist - the better it works
We have used it on air cooled air conditioning systems for ages.

Yes - you can put a hose on your air conditioner but a dry fine mist works so much better

Hi
I have been thinking about this for years, to help cool My two air conditioning units outside My house.. as when its 38-44C outside
a fine cooling mist of water onto the fan blades would help keep it cool...

LEE

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

modnrod Fahrvergnugen

978 posts · joined Mar 2011 · 23 Oct 2013, 5:30 pm

#973515

Gracey wrote:A guy on here has done this, Modrod from memory.

Gday Gracie.

Yep, I've done it, and I'm sure many others around the place have as well. It works wonders for a cooling set up that can be marginal at best in some conditions.

I had a '73 Square in the NT in the mid-80s, 1641/W100/heads, bla, bla, bla! Anyway, just south of Darwin it could happily sit on 70mph in mid-40s during the wet, but sometimes even temps as low as 38*C during the dry would send head temps too high, and I would have to slow down to 60mph. That sucks, coz the dry is when you load the little kids in the car and cruise on inland to the waterfalls and waterholes for a cool family day out with friends.

I used a mister jet from an irrigation company with a very fine droplet size aimed at the fan intake, then had a button on the dash. Press the button and hold it shut for about 10 secs, water from a washer bottle kit goes into the engine, head temps drop by as much as 30-40*C within a minute or two. Temps slowly build up again of course when the total heat loading can't get away, but I found a button press every 15mins was enough.
I've also used it where I live now, temps can sit over mid-40s for 1/2 the day, with humidity at less than 10%, all into a headwind and hills, a few little extra tricks all help in the end a bit at a time.

Sometimes a big caveman stick works better than all sorts of expensive trickery!😂

Gracey Wolfsburg Wizard

511 posts · joined Feb 2003 · 24 Oct 2013, 1:27 pm

#973566

Wow my memory served my correctly for once.

Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 · 24 Oct 2013, 6:55 pm

#973591

Gracey wrote:Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.

Thanks everyone for the feedback re this mod, but Gracey I was thinking on a turbo application when you reach the higher limits of your boost having a hobbs pressure switch turn the water on to aid in keeping it cool.

I also still like the idea of water injection into the manifolds, serves a couple of purposes 👍

Kev

I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Oct 2013, 7:34 pm

#973593

68AutoBug wrote:I have been thinking about this for years, to help cool My two air conditioning units outside My house.. as when its 38-44C outside
a fine cooling mist of water onto the fan blades would help keep it cool...

LEE

Yes - it would definitely help

The finer / higher pressure the mist the better

Futue te ipsum!!!

Gracey Wolfsburg Wizard

511 posts · joined Feb 2003 · 24 Oct 2013, 8:36 pm

#973599

Camo wrote:
Gracey wrote:Sounds like a great mod to me (that's been tested) for anyone planning on using their VW in this harsh enviornment.
Thanks everyone for the feedback re this mod, but Gracey I was thinking on a turbo application when you reach the higher limits of your boost having a hobbs pressure switch turn the water on to aid in keeping it cool.

I also still like the idea of water injection into the manifolds, serves a couple of purposes 👍

Kev

There was a guy on Rexnet doing intercooler spray kits using a thermocoupler to trigger the unit when the intercooler hits a certain temp. Something like that would work a treat with a bit of tweaking.