Hi All,
I have a EMPI serpentine pulley system fitted to my 1641 and yesterday the idler pulley seized! Chatting to a few people this seems to be a common problem due to cheap bearings being used. For others that have had this happen to them what did you do to get it fixed? I am going to get the bearing pressed out tomorrow and see what is available. Any help would be great. I will post my findings after visiting the bearing place. ( I have called quite a few shops in Australia to see if they sell the idler pulley on its own - no )
Cheers,
Marty
EMPI and cheap go hand in hand
buy a better quality set up next time
The Scat are just as bad.
I certainly don't like any of the serpentine set ups.
Too much trouble.
Futue te ipsum!!!
K.I.S.S :yes
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
yes have to agree with you Bazz re any of them
just another gimmick
Some of the EMPI gear is very good quality, it is just repackaged items that they have sourced from another manufacturer, so you cannot lump all of there gear in the one category , just press it out, it will be a common size, make sure you replace it with a well known brand as a lot of the bearing shops now carry the cheap bearings as well.
It is not only the bearing that is trouble.
My Scat one flogged out the keyway on the top pulley.
Futue te ipsum!!!
Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
matberry wrote:Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
agree.. piss it of and go back to stock!
Reub
I believe every new car these days uses an idler pulley [or more] but they can be very different....
but they usually last for at least 100,000klms. even 150,000klms or more.
so no junk poor quality bearings in those...
If the bearing can be pressed out then a new japanese or european bearing is needed.. Japanese and European Bearings usually have the brand and where they were made.. I remember seeing Chinese bearings many years ago, and they were in a plain looking box with no identification on the bearings.. .??
Why are You using a serpentine belt ?
As others have said.. they look great...
I suppose the major weakness being the pulley bearing...
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
reub wrote:matberry wrote:Serpintine belt kits are at best for more show than go. Reliability will be an issue eventually.
agree.. piss it of and go back to stock!
X2
Lee, no other vehicles have a large diameter fan that act like a flywheel mounted solidly on a small diameter (12mm) shaft, add to that a small woodruf key and a large load being the huge air volume and it's a recipe for a breakage. The worst damage occurs at idle as the have no slip and engine cylinder pulsing flod the pulleys. Modern engines work as they run high belt tensions and small dia pulleys without the big diameter fan.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
Be sure that serpentine belt allows the correct amount of belt slippage for your fan. if its an OEM fan (not seam welded and balanced again), it can die catastrophically at high rpm.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Driven daily for last five years with no problem, except for flogged out keyway, which is an easy fix...everybody's experience seems to be different...😵
the bearings are replaceable and are only held in via a circlip on either side, i replaced mine with japanese bearings almost imediatelly, cost of new bearings a whole $8 for 2 from a local bearing place
cb john wrote:Driven daily for last five years with no problem, except for flogged out keyway, which is an easy fix...everybody's experience seems to be different...😵
I think they probably like a stock engine better John, because of the smoothest of idles, but I'd still always keep an eye on things. Fan centers and pulley keyways are what I've seen fail on more than one or two occasions. Your steel hub upgrade certainly improves things.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
The only time I would change from the 'V' belt set-up would be if it gives trouble. So far it hasn't - touch wood [placing finger on head].
Serpentine belts may give a higher 'impression ratio'.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Serpentine belts may give a higher 'impression ratio'.
yep they dont impress me
😂😂68AutoBug wrote:I believe every new car these days uses an idler pulley [or more] but they can be very different....
but they usually last for at least 100,000klms. even 150,000klms or more.
so no junk poor quality bearings in those...
If the bearing can be pressed out then a new japanese or european bearing is needed.. Japanese and European Bearings usually have the brand and where they were made.. I remember seeing Chinese bearings many years ago, and they were in a plain looking box with no identification on the bearings.. .??
Why are You using a serpentine belt ?
As others have said.. they look great...
I suppose the major weakness being the pulley bearing...
LEE
you could fit an idler pulley of the same type from another car maker as a genuine item as one option.
if the bearing is replaceable, should fit a branded high speed and high load rated bearing which are normally with a bright blue seals on them.
I can't remember what the prefixes are for that rating. I just remember a guy from CBC telling me that about the color.
You are right on the life of them. My idler pulleys on my cars last well over 100k.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
The colour of the seal is no indication of the quality of the bearing, the first link shows you the bearing codes and the second link shows you the seal codes, if you look at the chart it shows the blue seal is a noncontact seal, not exactly what you would want in this application.
http://www.microbluebearings.com/pages/BEARING-SUFFIX-CODES.html
http://www.wib-bearings.com/en/tech/tech_02.htmnot sure if that is what it means, but they are definitely not non contact seals looking at them here.
They maybe a high heat rated seal or something. All I know is when I ask for a suitable bearing for idler pulley at CBC they give me these ones that look like that.
They work, they don't fail after 20k like the standard bearings. At the end of the day it they can take a pounding for 100k + I am happy.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE
Too much effort... V-belt sounds easy 👍 😂
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 👍
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
bajachris88 wrote:Too much effort... V-belt sounds easy 👍 😂
And they work, why spend money on something that wont improve your car?
As I said before, a good billet aluminium generator pulley and a steel bottom pulley solves all the issues including the ease of belt replacement at any garage.
Hi All,
Thanks for all the feedback - great to read. I have been a bit slack, but have finally found time to fix the idler bearings. To answer a couple of questions... I didn't fit the serpentine belt system - it was already on the car (don't worry it will be leaving the car very soon, once I decide what pulley setup to go with)... yes running a OEM fan (also will be leaving the car for a balanced and welded one with the planned engine build)
Anyway I got 2 new bearings from the local shop $19 high speed and high temp rated. New serpentine belt $30 from Supacheap. All back in and the car is moveable again - no big road trips planned till its changed over!!!
