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Heater for kombi

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Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#997865
I have been looking at a 600W electric heater to install to my kombi for rego but also to keep the wife and kids happy, just wondering if anyone has used one and are they happy with its ability to heat the car. If anyone has used another heater core some pics would be great.....I would like to use the existing ducting and was thinking to install either the electric or the heater core under the cabin....thanks...Rob

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#997870
I have a heater assy out of a Lada Niva that you could probably adapt to suit or a heater core from an EH Holden.The Lada heaters worked in Siberian winters and used to cook you in Australia.
PM if interested

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#997892
what engine AC or WC?

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#997900
If it is for a water cooled conversion. I would put the heater under the back seat on the drivers side, as that is where the Subaru heater pipes are on the other side in the engine bay. You will need to either put a cable tap, or an electric solenoid tap, or have constant flow through. The tap you use must have flow through bypass, as you cannot stop a Subaru heater circuit. A 2 speed fan, which comes on when the tap is opened, or if you have constant flow through, the fan is all you need to worry about wiring in. As the heater is recirculating, it is heating the air in the bus, it will work well. There are aftermarket truck cabin units available from companies like JayAir that will heat a VW bus easy
EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#997915
vlad01 wrote:what engine AC or WC?

Yeah sorry and EJ20...I was speaking to a company that does electric 600W heaters and am wondering if this is going to be easier than the water....wondering if anyone has used one..they use them for Hotrods but a kombi is much larger...so wondering what is the best option for heat

Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#997916
helbus wrote:If it is for a water cooled conversion. I would put the heater under the back seat on the drivers side, as that is where the Subaru heater pipes are on the other side in the engine bay. You will need to either put a cable tap, or an electric solenoid tap, or have constant flow through. The tap you use must have flow through bypass, as you cannot stop a Subaru heater circuit. A 2 speed fan, which comes on when the tap is opened, or if you have constant flow through, the fan is all you need to worry about wiring in. As the heater is recirculating, it is heating the air in the bus, it will work well. There are aftermarket truck cabin units available from companies like JayAir that will heat a VW bus easy
I am pretty basic in my heater/mechanical aptitude but I think i understand what you are saying, the bypass tap...is there a specific brand? I have read a H connection like the one RJES sell does the same thing? ie keep the flow going when the heater is off. Would there be enough airflow from a cabin heater from under the rear seat to make it all the way through the existing pipework to the front? Hellbus I read a thread from you a while back, did you get your heater done? Would love to use as much factory stuff as possible, has anyone used the existing heater levers to an aftermarket heater? sorry for all the questions, was heading down the electric heater but think it may be a waste of money if it doesn't heat the car up in winter

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#997923
problem with electric is where are you going to get enough energy to output the heat.

useful amount of heating for a car will be 2kw+ worth of heat. for a larger vehicle 3kw+ or higher is necessary.

To get that sort of heat from electric for eg 2000w 2000/13.8= 145A
that is shit loads of current draw just for heat.

using a heater core can out put well into the requirements with just waste heat from the engine.

something like this is what I would use. The later would be more suitable as its typical automotive design with axial fan while the first is hand crafted using a computer radiator and probably computer fans lol. But does look prettier 😀

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-heater-blower-demister-unit-hot-rod-kit-car-race-rally-12V-/151284610117?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233943f445

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DASH-12V-HEATER-DEMISTER-UNIT-HOT-ROD-DRAG-CAR-TRUCK-VAN-/131157596543?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e899a197f


I am not sure about operating a heatertap in a vw unless 1 you can get electrically operated bypass taps. 2 use a standard pneumatic tap and install vac res, valves and such from a modern car or your choose.

My idea was to use a vs-vy tap and use vn-vs hot/cold pneumatic switch. its just a on/off pneumatic micro switch like thing that gets pressed by a lever when changing from cold to hot. You can mount it on anything you like such as the heater control levers, so when you pull the lever to turn on the heat, its will turn the tap on and the fans can be operated separately via your fan switch, just like a modern car.

I even found a pic yay!



and one of these, about $25



A check valve is must and a res will help but probably not required as its only the one item on vacuum not a whole climate control system.

What hellbus suggested will be the easiest with the heaters running all the time with only the fan to worry about. I am pretty sure a lot of cars do this already. only problem is it might add unwanted heat to the cabin when not in use.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#997926
vlad01 wrote:problem with electric is where are you going to get enough energy to output the heat.

useful amount of heating for a car will be 2kw+ worth of heat. for a larger vehicle 3kw+ or higher is necessary.

To get that sort of heat from electric for eg 2000w 2000/13.8= 145A
that is shit loads of current draw just for heat.

using a heater core can out put well into the requirements with just waste heat from the engine.

something like this is what I would use. The later would be more suitable as its typical automotive design with axial fan while the first is hand crafted using a computer radiator and probably computer fans lol. But does look prettier 😀

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-heater-blower-demister-unit-hot-rod-kit-car-race-rally-12V-/151284610117?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233943f445

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DASH-12V-HEATER-DEMISTER-UNIT-HOT-ROD-DRAG-CAR-TRUCK-VAN-/131157596543?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e899a197f
Great advice thanks for that, I think the second one will be the best option, now just need to decide best spot for it, under rear seat closer to engine more heat for passengers, under front cabin better heat for driver, windscreen but longer hoses from engine......anyone installed one like this and have any tips?

Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#997928
Bok Choi wrote:
vlad01 wrote:problem with electric is where are you going to get enough energy to output the heat.

useful amount of heating for a car will be 2kw+ worth of heat. for a larger vehicle 3kw+ or higher is necessary.

To get that sort of heat from electric for eg 2000w 2000/13.8= 145A
that is shit loads of current draw just for heat.

using a heater core can out put well into the requirements with just waste heat from the engine.

something like this is what I would use. The later would be more suitable as its typical automotive design with axial fan while the first is hand crafted using a computer radiator and probably computer fans lol. But does look prettier 😀

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-heater-blower-demister-unit-hot-rod-kit-car-race-rally-12V-/151284610117?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233943f445

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DASH-12V-HEATER-DEMISTER-UNIT-HOT-ROD-DRAG-CAR-TRUCK-VAN-/131157596543?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e899a197f
Great advice thanks for that, I think the second one will be the best option, now just need to decide best spot for it, under rear seat closer to engine more heat for passengers, under front cabin better heat for driver, windscreen but longer hoses from engine......anyone installed one like this and have any tips?
I just looked at the 600W heater and it has a 8016 BTU which I converted to 2.34KW...is that right?..if what you are saying it would still struggle with a van...cost wise around the same by the time you install the heater core etc......am thinking the best option is the aftermarket heater plus tap with bypass

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#997929
I edited the post for more info ^

Does the kombi have heater channels that run to the front?

you can just connect it to those if so.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#997932
Bok Choi wrote:
Bok Choi wrote:
vlad01 wrote:problem with electric is where are you going to get enough energy to output the heat.

useful amount of heating for a car will be 2kw+ worth of heat. for a larger vehicle 3kw+ or higher is necessary.

To get that sort of heat from electric for eg 2000w 2000/13.8= 145A
that is shit loads of current draw just for heat.

using a heater core can out put well into the requirements with just waste heat from the engine.

something like this is what I would use. The later would be more suitable as its typical automotive design with axial fan while the first is hand crafted using a computer radiator and probably computer fans lol. But does look prettier 😀

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-heater-blower-demister-unit-hot-rod-kit-car-race-rally-12V-/151284610117?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item233943f445

or

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DASH-12V-HEATER-DEMISTER-UNIT-HOT-ROD-DRAG-CAR-TRUCK-VAN-/131157596543?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e899a197f
Great advice thanks for that, I think the second one will be the best option, now just need to decide best spot for it, under rear seat closer to engine more heat for passengers, under front cabin better heat for driver, windscreen but longer hoses from engine......anyone installed one like this and have any tips?
I just looked at the 600W heater and it has a 8016 BTU which I converted to 2.34KW...is that right?..if what you are saying it would still struggle with a van...cost wise around the same by the time you install the heater core etc......am thinking the best option is the aftermarket heater plus tap with bypass
nope, 600w is 600w. heaters are almost 100% efficient.

you can't get more energy than what you put in. Simple physics.

household 2400w heater, how much do those heat you up? not a great deal. So 600w is less than a toaster which is a heater if you think about it. Try warming up your car with a toaster (800w) or a hair dryer on low (1000w) and see how long til its gets toasty.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

karmann141 Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Aug 2009 ·

#997954
Here's another alternative. I also have an EJ20 in a Camper and nearly froze driving back from Valla 2012 and definitely wanted heating for Valla 2014.
I also wanted to use the existing heater ducting and controls - so I'm using the existing engine compartment blower (wired to a separate dash switch) and taking clean air straight from one radiator and through both of the existing (old heater box) outlets/intakes.
It worked really well for Valla this year - all the original controls work (after being freed up) demister, driver /passenger feet outlets and even rear passenger heating.
Will take some pictures if interested.
1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#997957
As helbus said , YOU MUST HAVE CONTINUAL FLOW OF WATER IN A SUBARU HEATER CIRCUT OR YOU WILL COOK IT , so be carefull how it is plumbed .
When we where doing many of the subie conversions at Custom Vee Dub a few years ago we used to use a 60 series landcruiser rear heater which has a self contained fan unit and mini radiator which we would mount under the front floor and feed straight into the factory vw heater intake and worked a treat
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#997964
This is a standard aftermarket electric 4 way heater tap that has constant flow for the cicuit, whether the heater core is on or off. Any airconditioning workshop can order one in.

http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA7105

16,000BTU heater
http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA2540

30,000btu heater
http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA2550

The 30,000btu heater is what I used. Toasty as. Heats from the back to the front easy. I have an under floor radiator, so no centre heat tube, the heat comes from under the back seat and fills the cabin.
EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

chellejohno Slammed & Awesome Dubber

78 posts · joined Feb 2011 ·

#997983
I'm looking at using one of these and plumbing into the original heater channel and using the original heater blower wiring to power it.

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vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#997986
helbus wrote:This is a standard aftermarket electric 4 way heater tap that has constant flow for the cicuit, whether the heater core is on or off. Any airconditioning workshop can order one in.

http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA7105

16,000BTU heater
http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA2540

30,000btu heater
http://ishop2.cooldrive.com.au/products/HA2550

The 30,000btu heater is what I used. Toasty as. Heats from the back to the front easy. I have an under floor radiator, so no centre heat tube, the heat comes from under the back seat and fills the cabin.
I had measured these up, 2 smaller units plumbed in parallel replacing each air bellow under the rear seat is perfect! the hoses can enter each unit via the unused heat exchanger inlet from the engine bay.

Then add another standard 2 speed vw fan switch in the blanked hole in the dash, bob's your uncle! everything will work as factory but better.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#998005
Electric heat in a DC voltage car system just cant generate enough heat to be useful, especially in somehting the size of a Kombi

To give you an idea my tractor is aircooled so has an electric heater in, the heater element is almost the same size as the air con core (about 500x200mm) and has its own seperate 65amp alternator to run it and only generates heat with engine revs over 1500.
And that is in a tiny tractor cab about 1/5th the size of a kombi interior.

You have a watercooled engine now, it is made for proper heater core.
Just do as the others have said and run the coolant through it constantly.

I got a Commodore 4 way heater tap same as Vlad posted for mine but a mate tried this same one and it was causing too much heat shock to the thermostat and causing the engine to overheat.
Just run continuous flow through and vary the fan speed.

vlad01 Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,270 posts · joined Jun 2010 ·

#998089
I thought that might be the case as they do run stat on the inlet which uses that heater loop to feed coolant as a feedback loop for engine temp.

sudden drop in temp in that loop will close the stat even if the engine is at operating temp.

I guess it all depends on the volume of the core and hoses after the bypass tap to how much it will close the stat and for how long.

I am fairly certain most cars these days run the core all the time and the climate control system opens and closes air flaps in the housing that contains the core so that heat doesn't just draft though when it wants.

71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE

tweety Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Feb 2011 ·

#998141
What would a trike owner know about heating?

Well with several occasions of my large perspex window fogging up I had to get an answer to the problem. 12V hairdryers.

Not powerful enough as previously stated for your applcation and holding one while riding a trike looks a little like you've just robbed a bank with a pistol. I used it coming from Echuca to Euroa last year. Torrential rain, foggy windscreen. Hairdryer in left hand. Yeh, dont tell anyone.

I should have stopped at Murchison to use the mens dunny but pressed on because with that hairdryer I felt I would make it home. Yeh we got home...got off the trike and entered garage to lift the roller door. Just like a phone box .....very warm crutch.....damn it...should have stopped at Murchison.

So that heater with the coolant tubes from UK might be an idea. lol
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXwh4z8d66o
SUBARU ea81, VW auto, Detour camper
My ex girlfriend said "its me or a trike". Her big mistake.

Bok Choi Learner Dubber

14 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#998235
Joel wrote:Electric heat in a DC voltage car system just cant generate enough heat to be useful, especially in somehting the size of a Kombi

To give you an idea my tractor is aircooled so has an electric heater in, the heater element is almost the same size as the air con core (about 500x200mm) and has its own seperate 65amp alternator to run it and only generates heat with engine revs over 1500.
And that is in a tiny tractor cab about 1/5th the size of a kombi interior.

You have a watercooled engine now, it is made for proper heater core.
Just do as the others have said and run the coolant through it constantly.

I got a Commodore 4 way heater tap same as Vlad posted for mine but a mate tried this same one and it was causing too much heat shock to the thermostat and causing the engine to overheat.
Just run continuous flow through and vary the fan speed.
so would this solve the problem with the thermostat?

http://www.subaruvanagon.com/tom/Thermostat%20housingk.htm

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#998237
Yes that or if you want an OEM solution you can use a Turbo water pump.

It has extra inlets for the turbo and oil cooler lines, one will need blanking off though.