For those interested-I started this yesterday. Stripped everything from the pan yesterday afternoon and made a measuring jig to keep a check on the alignment of the frame horns during the work.I made a solid bar to take the place of the original bellhousing mounting bracket to keep the horns together and put braces up to the shock towers. Finished the IRS conversions today using some I cut from a Beetle pan.Will make up a jig next weekend to keep the lower engine mounting holes of the bellhousing in the correct position in relation to the frame horns.Will need this to locate the auto in the exact original position so the engine fits the engine bay correctly. I have taken plenty of pics so far and will put some up soon.
I thought the Type 3 auto was too wide?
Pay your debts, CxxT
I think you have to cut some of the horns and then re-inforce it.
Must dig out the pics of my Brother's race beetle.
His was done by CBB at Penrith.
Did you get a Good Box? My brother had a lot of trouble getting a good one, was usually the diff section that was
stuffed.
Also do you know how much power they can handle?
I thought on shop talk forums they said up to 150 H.P.
Regards,Glenn>
When I cut the horns to clear-there was not enough left to strengthen properly.Have cut them off completely and am using another set and will mount them wider apart to allow trans to fit in and then weld them in and reinforce.Have just finished cutting a section from the torsion bar tube each side of the centre anchor and welding in some flat plate-this allows the trans to come forward another 20mm to try and get the motor to fit the engine bay better.The trans came from a car that was going-but intend to get it overhauled and get bigger clutch packs and a high stall convertor.From my research I have found that the diff is the strongest part-supposedly bulletproof.The diff sits in it's own cast iron housing inside the aluminium diff housing.Because I'm running a big Type4 motor-will need all the usual beef up stuff that gets done to all auto's.Hope you find the pics of your brothers-always good to see what other people have done which is good for ideas.
I thought the box was too long so you have to cut the torsion bar tubes etc
id like to see some pics of this one please
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
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To replace those lost-in the first one you will see where the original frame horn bolts went.
To let you know if you get the spacer in the clutch pack ground down you can fit 1 more clutch in, allowing you to hall more ass .You will also find the nose on the converter will leak ( most do ) the trick is to fit two seals the cast iron section of the trans , when your there and the box is apart , get hold of holden diff breathers ( or from a 4x4 ) and run these high up the fire wall out of the way from road grime , the rubber ones go hard and seal up ,forming pressure in the housing and pissing oil out .I have been playing with an hydratrak from a HSV holden to fit the type three auto diff .
seagull
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Thanks Seagull-knew about the converter seals but not the breathers-will do that while it's apart.Sat it up between the horns last night,just a small amount of clearancing now.Better fit between the hornsthough.I am going to cut the arse out of a wreck I have,leaving just the skeleton around the engine bay seal area and and the bodywork above the centre torsion bar tube.This should be helpful in getting it all to fit and lined up.I have ordered the spring shackle bushes like you use,the Valiant ones are too stiff and too big.I have a 1600TP that can be slipped in to line it all up.I still can't get my head around why they made the output flanges sit 35mm higher on an auto compared to the manual box.Do you have any issues with this for you conversions.It seems that in a standard Type3 Auto, that the CV joints would be always working at much greater angles than a manual box.
Seagull-this is what I mean-the bellhousing is in exactly the same position as a manual box and the back has to come down only a very small amount-see how far the output flanges are above the frame horns.I have made my frame horns
about 30mm lower than standard-but even B4 I cut them-they were about 60mm above the horns.There is no way you have to flatten them when doing the IRS conversion like when using a manual box. nn[ Edited on 1-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
Only had this afternoon to work on it-didn't get too far.Cut the arse out of a wreck to check for clearance of the motor.Had to cut the inside bit of the horns-the lip that was used to spot weld the 2 halves together.I cut 30mm each side and will weld back in some flat bar.The whole thing sits in perfectly now,with the motor having an even gap around the seal lips.Because I cut the lips off the inside of the horns,it is real easy now to get the trans in and out.This will be good if it has to come out once the body is back on.I will have to cut a small section from the body below the back seat to clear the hump at the front of the trans.Should be able to make it a removeable panel,which will help to adjust the front band as well.
Will spend some nights this week to fab up the mounts.
Another day and a half on the job.It's finally in position with all the mounts made and the gearchange cable fitted and clearanced.Have just got to patch some holes I cut on the inside of the forks for some more clearance and around where the cable goes into the pan.Had to modify the bracket that supports the cable at the trans to give the cable some clearance against the pan.Next weekend will only have to weld the patches and fit the gearchange lever,and it will be all over.Need to run a 10mm and 8mm fuel pipe for the fuel injection,then it can be blasted and painted.Should have the body back next weekend,so it's all finally coming together.nn[ Edited on 17-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
Had to go back to using Valiant mounts so I could get them far enough forward to clear the the engine fan shroud.Will get some new mounts and tidy up the brackets B4 painting.Used the Toyota spring shackle rubbers for the front one with a 12mm X 8.8 bolt.
Looking Good NB, Glad to see it's all come together well.
Cheers
Yeah, I agree. Top work! Might consider an auto in front of a Sooby EJ20T if they are able to be toughened as good as what you say...
Pay your debts, CxxT
This is a GREAT project, great work. Will the drive plate of the Type 4 engine fit up to the Type 3 torque converter ????
Does the type 4 engine have a cut out below the drive plate so you can get access to the 3 bolts on the torque convertor ???
Will u use the stock Type 3 axles are they longe enough
just posing some questions in case you hadnt thought about some of the issues but it looks like your solving them
more pics please
Yeah Dave the PCD is the same for the 3 mounting bolts.I haven't put the 2 together yet,but the auto has a cut out at the bottom to get at the bolts,and if there isn't enough room there,can use the hole in the crankcase above the top bellhousing bolt.Checked the Type3 drive shafts and look good for fitting.I have an auto and drive shafts from a Kombi as well,so may even be able to use these shafts and CV's.For anybody contemplating an auto conversion into a Beetle and wanting to keep the engine in the original location-think long and hard.It's been a real head fxxk trying to squeeze it all in.If you were doing a buggy or Baja and could have the motor a few inches further back,then it would be fairly straight forward,but still heavy going.If you could fab up a cage and get rid of the frame horns all together,even easier.
Not much progress-visitors on the week end.Got into it last night again.Have completely finished the left hand side,with a relief cut into it where the cable goes into the pan.Have drilled a big enough hole so that the cable will not hit under hard accelleration(will use a big blanking grommet with hole cut in it) Where I cut the side out of the frame horns,I have welded in gussets out of 3mm plate,B4 closing them up.Ended up cutting the original fuel and heater cable tubes off completely.Will be making a heater system using electric fans,and using 2 new bigger fuel lines anyhow.nn[ Edited on 26-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
have you looked at shorting or if you have to shorten the trailing or swing arms as well
yes it would be easier to fit into a buggy great work making it fit a bug
have you looked at shorting or if you have to shorten the trailing or swing arms as well
yes it would be easier to fit into a buggy great work making it fit a bug
No Dave-at this stage I think all the type3 stuff fits-don't have to shorten anything.Will pull all the torsion bars,spring plates and trailing arms from the pan I have already converted and restored(it is all Type3 stuff) will just have to swap the drive shafts for the auto ones.This pic is of the other frame horn that I have just finished and also ground down all welds and polished.
Finished at last at the back end-welded up the holes where the heater cable tubes came from,welded a couple more gussets where the frame horns attach to the torsion bar tubes and made and welded the small brackets that hold the brake pipe unions to the pan.Cut all the unused pipes from in the tunnel-( had to cut an access hole in the pan near the back-will weld it back after I have put the new fuel lines in)2 heater tubes,original fuel line and the clutch cable tube. Fitted the gear change lever and the covers.Will have to fab up something to go up under the gear lever cover to glue the carpet to.Gear change is all in and adjusted-works OK.
Fitted up the Type3 pedal assembly last night.The 2 holes that attach it to the floor just by the throttle pedal were stripped,so had to weld them up and rethread them-a simple job that took ages.Cut the original battery hold down bracket of and fabbed up a new one to hold the battery like modern cars-using the lugs around the base of the battery.Found the clamp in a 73 Bug I wrecked recently-they all must use this set up.Run my first fuel line thru the tunnel(8mm one first) and bought it thru the original hole at the front and alongside the throttle tube at the rear.Put some thick heat shrink on where it goes under the pedal shaft.I silver soldered it to the hand brake tube where it goes past the access hole I cut. Have put the 10mm one on the opposite side at the rear, right where I can mount the high pressure FI pump.
I have to say, that is quite impressive.nn[ Edited on 3-8-2005 by pete wood ]
Thanks Pete-finished the fuel lines and mounted the FI pump alongside the trans.Will shorten both fuel lines and flare the ends when I pull the auto out for the last time this weekend-pan is going in Monday for a blast and paint.Silver soldered the 10mm supply line to the hand brake lines inside the tunnel and then welded the hole up.Have bought the 10mm pipe out the side of the frame at the front and made up an aluminium bracket to stop it flexing.My low pressure feed pump is mounted on the left hand side of the front beam and will feed into the 10mm pipe. The 8mm pipe coming out the original hole is for the fuel return.
One after I welded up the hole and one of the auto from underneath- it doesn't hang down below the pan-just that the rear cross brace is a little lower-but still plenty of ground clearance.
very neat job - I've often wondered how much work is involved in doing this and now I know.... its shitloads 🙂
Great pics and story....
Have spoken to 2 people who have type 3 autos in Beetles in the USA - one said it was bloody hard, the other one [who had a metal worker welder do the job] said it was easy..???
Its too bloody hard for this black duck....
Have You thought about a removeable rear valance ?
It makes pulling the engine so easy... You can take the engine out with all wheels sitting on the ground....
Best of Luck
Lee Noonan 68AutoBug
Doug Sweetman wrote:very neat job - I've often wondered how much work is involved in doing this and now I know.... its shitloads 🙂
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Lee, I couldn't find any body who had done it B4 I started this to have a chat.B4 my computer crashed,I used to visit a site about auto stick Bugs,that you also used to visit,but can't remember it's name.Do you still go there? Is that where you found the 2 blokes you mentioned? Yes,thought about the removeable rear panel-about a month after I had just finished welding in the new one,which I really welded in-didn't expect it to ever have to come out again.With the auto,I reckon I can remove the rear brace,and it will swing down real low pivoting on the front mount,which will aid in getting the motor hooked up easier,then just jack the whole lot up to fit the rear brace.
a subaru fitment made easy
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