bug@5speed\'s sump installed (pics)

72RSbug · 2005-08-29T20:18:18+00:00

install was pretty straightforward, only had to relocate 1 screw that interfered with the oil filter line. Also shortened the oil pickup line inside the sump with 5 cm. the sump now doesn't come any lower then the exhaust manifold

72RSbug Officially Full-On Dubber

266 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 19 Oct 2005, 8:57 pm

#419316

casting isn't superb but but it's "pretty" enough for what it is intended for. I myself have thought about polishing the sump but after just having done my set of 18" BBS Le Mans wheels I think I'll take a brake from polishing.

jvl054 Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined May 2005 · 19 Oct 2005, 9:28 pm

#419338

reub-revhead wrote:Got my sump today from Ratbug (aka Andrew).

I can see the work involved in these but am a little disappointed in the casting quality. Hopefully this improves with time. Just as well my car is low so people won't be getting underneath looking for detail. Will help alot just the same.

Apologies if I sound harsh, just doesn't look as good in person, probably like my car :o

Send it back,nothing worst if not happy with a product and pay good money for.JVLRacing

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 19 Oct 2005, 11:51 pm

#419437

jvl054 wrote:Send it back,nothing worst if not happy with a product and pay good money for.JVLRacing

Nah, it'll be ok. Saves me having to go through the pain of shortening a standard sump, and I've got it now.

Reub

ricola Wolfsburg Wizard

437 posts · joined Feb 2003 · 20 Oct 2005, 1:05 am

#419446

I'm surprised you need to shorten your sump with the engine that high Reub!

You have U2U 😉

Rich

http://www.ricola.co.uk

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 20 Oct 2005, 8:30 am

#419481

ricola wrote:I'm surprised you need to shorten your sump with the engine that high Reub!

You have U2U 😉

Rich

Yeah, but have you seen the height of my car? I've got about 110mm clear to the sump currently and a little more clearance would give piece of mind.....

Here is a pic of the sump. To the right hand side you can see holes that return underneath. I trust there are no air bubbles in the casting other than the external ones.

[ Edited on 19-10-2005 by reub-revhead ]

Reub

Jenny Officially Full-On Dubber

352 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 20 Oct 2005, 8:38 am

#419487

I've gone over mine with the sander to give it that 'milled finish' look and I'm quite happy with that, but yes it would take a lot of effort to get a polished finish.

bugat5speed Casual Dubber

25 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 20 Oct 2005, 5:46 pm

#419653

@reub-revhead:
Hi, the sumps are sand-casted. By this they are a little more rough, than casted in a steel mould. But for the quantities casted it´s the only economical way to do it. A price of 600 - 700 Euro would definitely not be accepted. What you see on the picture are no bubbles. And it should not concern you. The fins in the sand mould sometimes break out a little by taking the mould out of the sand. Then it happens that there is a little grinding mark in the sumps. Don´t worry, that it is leaking there. I test all sumps before they are sent out. And be sure, those which took the long way to AUS are doublechecked. Besides it would be the first leaking sump that I ever had.

@jvl054: What´s the problem, that you ask customers to send back my products. Have you got a problem with my sumps, or is it only so, that due to language barriers I do missunderstand you? If it is so, then I do appologize. If not, then please stop this!

Cheers Martin

[ Edited on 20-10-2005 by bugat5speed ]

jvl054 Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined May 2005 · 20 Oct 2005, 6:38 pm

#419668

bugat5speed wrote:@reub-revhead:
Hi, the sumps are sand-casted. By this they are a little more rough, than casted in a steel mould. But for the quantities casted it´s the only economical way to do it. A price of 600 - 700 Euro would definitely not be accepted. What you see on the picture are no bubbles. And it should not concern you. The fins in the sand mould sometimes break out a little by taking the mould out of the sand. Then it happens that there is a little grinding mark in the sumps. Don´t worry, that it is leaking there. I test all sumps before they are sent out. And be sure, those which took the long way to AUS are doublechecked. Besides it would be the first leaking sump that I ever had.

@jvl054: What´s the problem, that you ask customers to send back my products. Have you got a problem with my sumps, or is it only so, that due to language barriers I do missunderstand you? If it is so, then I do appologize. If not, then please stop this!

Cheers Martin

[ Edited on 20-10-2005 by bugat5speed ]

Martin,I think your sumps are okay:thumb and you are having a go.I think you have missunderstood me:o no doubt.Looking at your earlier pictures of your sumps...the casting is perfect.Last one that ive just seen on here and commented on was no where near the quality of the others....Lets put the shoe on the other foot,would you be happy to have that!..or are you happy to sell that and hear comments like this!..This is your creditation Martin...JVLRacing

[ Edited on 20/10/2005 by jvl054 ]

2443TT Fahrvergnugen

962 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 20 Oct 2005, 10:13 pm

#419762

bugat5speed wrote:@reub-revhead:
Hi, the sumps are sand-casted. By this they are a little more rough, than casted in a steel mould. But for the quantities casted it´s the only economical way to do it. A price of 600 - 700 Euro would definitely not be accepted. What you see on the picture are no bubbles. And it should not concern you. The fins in the sand mould sometimes break out a little by taking the mould out of the sand. Then it happens that there is a little grinding mark in the sumps. Don´t worry, that it is leaking there. I test all sumps before they are sent out. And be sure, those which took the long way to AUS are doublechecked. Besides it would be the first leaking sump that I ever had.

@jvl054: What´s the problem, that you ask customers to send back my products. Have you got a problem with my sumps, or is it only so, that due to language barriers I do missunderstand you? If it is so, then I do appologize. If not, then please stop this!

Cheers Martin

[ Edited on 20-10-2005 by bugat5speed ]

Hey man don't take it personally. I fully understand where JVL054 is coming from... I can't tell you how many times i've bought aftermarket VW products that turned out to be that badly manufacturerd I couldn't possibly use them on my car.

That being said, I'm sure that a lot of other people have no problem with stuff I consider to be junk.

I can think if carbs, disc brake systems, endless amounts of chrome trim, the list goes on.... All stuff that was that badly made, or fitted that badly it was a joke!

In the end what it all comes down to when your building a customised car, if you don't like the quality of something you've bought you will ALWAYS end up haivng to replace it down the track, so why pay twice.

Dam I'd love to list some brand names here, but I doubt EMPI or SCAT read the Aussie vee dubbers forum...

bugat5speed Casual Dubber

25 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 21 Oct 2005, 3:15 am

#419816

Hey boys,

to bring this discussion to an end from my side. The oilsumps Jenny or 72RSbug have are of the same quality like the one reub-revhead has received. They all look like that one on the surface. The one reub-revhead has, has a small flaw in a clearance between two fins. You will never see it. Only if you lay under the car and if you are in the very same direction like these two fins, that are left and right of the grinding mark. Each 3rd or 4th of my sumps has such a little flaw. It´s very tricky to cast these fins in a sand casting process. The sand easily breaks óut, when you take the model out of the mould (sand).
None of my sumps ever had leakages due to bubbles in the casted material. Each sump fits perfectly to the bolt pattern of the Subaru engine.
Perhaps Jenny and 72RSbug will give a final comment on their impressions of the sumps.
All the reworked original and shortened Subaru sumps that I´ve ever seen mainly look unprofessional and if you have such a thing on your car, then you can start discussing about optical problems. Most comments I´ve yet heard from customers were of satisfied nature.
Don´t want to leave a bit of a bad taste on my sumps.

Cheers Martin

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 21 Oct 2005, 5:36 am

#419821

HI Martin, can u give us some pics or a link of the vw that runs around the Numbring track, I'd really like to see it.
regards
Jak

jvl054 Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined May 2005 · 21 Oct 2005, 1:02 pm

#419918

bugat5speed wrote:Hey boys,

to bring this discussion to an end from my side. The oilsumps Jenny or 72RSbug have are of the same quality like the one reub-revhead has received. They all look like that one on the surface. The one reub-revhead has, has a small flaw in a clearance between two fins. You will never see it. Only if you lay under the car and if you are in the very same direction like these two fins, that are left and right of the grinding mark. Each 3rd or 4th of my sumps has such a little flaw. It´s very tricky to cast these fins in a sand casting process. The sand easily breaks óut, when you take the model out of the mould (sand).
None of my sumps ever had leakages due to bubbles in the casted material. Each sump fits perfectly to the bolt pattern of the Subaru engine.
Perhaps Jenny and 72RSbug will give a final comment on their impressions of the sumps.
All the reworked original and shortened Subaru sumps that I´ve ever seen mainly look unprofessional and if you have such a thing on your car, then you can start discussing about optical problems. Most comments I´ve yet heard from customers were of satisfied nature.
Don´t want to leave a bit of a bad taste on my sumps.

Cheers Martin

Martin,My dad(30year exp) is a Moulder and i use to just watch how they pulled out there plugs.Dad use to say WATER and COMPRESSION of the sand is the key to a good mould.If ther looked like air pockets in the mould they would break them up.....MARTIN you quoted most sumps look unproffessional....well mind doesnt look shiney like yours,but holds more oil and Baffled to stop oil surge.with a mod pick up....Thers no bad taste here on your sumps Cheers JVLRacing

Jenny Officially Full-On Dubber

352 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 24 Oct 2005, 12:48 pm

#421031

OF the two sumps that I received, the one I sent to Andrew was the 'worst' because he said his was going on his buggy and it would probably get bashed up a bit anyway, unfortunately it didn't fit due to his crossmember so he sold it on to Reub.
You can see from the picture I posted previously that mine does not have the casting marks on the fins. I'm certainly happy with it and believe I got what I payed for: an alloy sump that bolts up to the Suby motor and gives increased ground clearance for my lowslung Eureka with pleasing asthetics. Granted it is not show quality but then again if I'd wanted that I would have spent $1200 and bought the one from MRT Rally.

Louis Commited Dubber

50 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 7 Nov 2005, 9:31 am

#425692

bugat5speed wrote:jvl054: Have you got a problem with my sumps, or is it only so, that due to language barriers I do missunderstand you?

It's not just the language barrier. Many native English speakers have no idea what he is on about half the time.

bugat5speed wrote:All the reworked original and shortened Subaru sumps that I´ve ever seen mainly look unprofessional

Amen!

[ Edited on 6-11-2005 by Louis ]

jvl054 Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined May 2005 · 7 Nov 2005, 11:45 am

#425758

So louis,what dont i know ?JVLRacing

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Nov 2005, 10:45 pm

#426164

Congratulations VDubya (Louis) on continuing with your constructive input - and you wonder why your posts get edited??

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 5 Sep 2006, 1:36 pm

#530829

a

tssnq.com.au

axel77 Learner Dubber

11 posts · joined Aug 2006 · 6 Sep 2006, 1:52 am

#531103

I would like to bring up a point that I think is being overlooked here with shortening of sumps, the one of oil height in relation to the crank. It is all well and good to raise the level of the base, weld on wings (or cast a new shape) but looking at the recalibrated dipstick in Jenny's car, and mine also I got to thinking about how much closer the top level of the oil got to the engine. Having worked in the V8 supercar industry, and having manufactured sumps that were designed with mesh scrapers and baffles, installed in order to stop the considerable horsepower losses that occur when high speed cranks smack into a body of oil, I wonder if this aspect is being ignored especially under cornering. When I made my sump, I was very aware to keep the 4.5L oil level below the original tinware intact near the top of the sump in an attempt to overcome this. Its been a while, but I also seem to remember there being tinware above the sump mating face on the engine also? I'd be interested to hear peoples opinion on this, especially COR and bugspeed and anyone in the motor racing industry.

Cheers, Axel.

seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 · 6 Sep 2006, 2:47 am

#531107

I am looking at dry sumping mine as seen in some of the small planes about on the net .I have emailed a guy in the usa who has built a suabru turbo plane , he has a great set up .

The water cooled oil cooler set up on the RS / WRX motors are also low for the vw set up , I would like to move that as well .

Most of the makers of these sumps over look the need of baffels & windage trays .

I did hear a few of the off roaders over here in Perth have damaged motors due to lack of oil pick up

Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake

seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 · 6 Sep 2006, 2:51 am

#531108

If some one has a great idea and has a pattern , I do high quality castings in my factory in Tiwan I would need some numbers to get a run done , say 40 uints

Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Sep 2006, 1:58 pm

#531213

axel77 wrote:I would like to bring up a point that I think is being overlooked here with shortening of sumps, the one of oil height in relation to the crank. It is all well and good to raise the level of the base, weld on wings (or cast a new shape) but looking at the recalibrated dipstick in Jenny's car, and mine also I got to thinking about how much closer the top level of the oil got to the engine.

That's a good point. I wonder how close the crank throws come to the oil level when the engine is subject to the accelerations of driving and cornering. I wouldn't be too concerned with a bus installation, but if you're going to throw a converted bug or kit car around you could get oil starvation.

Subaru engineers did a prudent thing by making the sump as deep as possible for their stock application, and when we redesign their sumps we have to be sure that we won't be starving our engines for oil.

Getting equal capacity is one thing, but if all the oil is stuck in one of the "wings" by cornering it could be a problem. You might be better off with a narrower sump of less capacity!

George

rubyred Slammed & Awesome Dubber

77 posts · joined Apr 2005 · 7 Sep 2006, 11:13 am

#531635

Why complicate things more with a dry sump? I mean, you can only squish the engine so much. After shortening the sump, its quite obvious that the headers are the limiting point. If you use the Subaru brand oil filters, which are shorter than the normal ones, the headers are still the lowest point.

And on the topic of oil height in relation to the crank. I think what he means is that, regardless of the wings, if you have to rescribe your dipstick, your oil level is in fact closer to the crank than stock.

i have a shortened sump, but, i have been looking into the idea of raising the engine into the car. The offroad guys do it all the time. Keep the front tranny at the same mount, but raise the rear mount, at the framehorns. Companys already make 1 inch lift mounts, so im probably going to try that out.

-Ryan

[ Edited on 7/9/2006 by rubyred ]

www.subynotch.com

gull Wolfsburg Wizard

446 posts · joined Jun 2005 · 7 Sep 2006, 11:32 am

#531639

I have a set of flat headers
stock oil filter
+ its ok for you if you have a notch , wagon , or buggy , but how can one lift a motor in a bug ? I have my shifter going on top of my tunnel & I have a 091 box

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Sep 2006, 1:10 pm

#531679

Hi

Something that has crossed my mind is that we are in fact running the motor and sump backwards, something the Subaru engineers didnt consider. I have raised my motor 25 mm, I hope that this enough to allow me to keep the stock sump.

Steve

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 7 Sep 2006, 1:26 pm

#531690

I'm also pondering the idea of lifting the rear of the engine to allow the use of the stock sump. In a bus there is quite a bit of room above the engine. I think that the first interference point is the transmission bell housing against the body under the fuel tank.

George

rubyred Slammed & Awesome Dubber

77 posts · joined Apr 2005 · 7 Sep 2006, 5:29 pm

#531763

gull wrote:I have a set of flat headers
stock oil filter
+ its ok for you if you have a notch , wagon , or buggy , but how can one lift a motor in a bug ? I have my shifter going on top of my tunnel & I have a 091 box

stock front mount means shift linkage dosnt change. I would think it would be harder in a notch than a bug considering you guys cut out your firewalls. I have a trunk a couple inches above my turbo.

-Ryan

www.subynotch.com

malcolm Insano Dub Head

812 posts · joined Nov 2004 · 7 Sep 2006, 8:42 pm

#531865

steve you can lift the motor in a bug as long as you move it forward like you have ,I have moved my gearbox 75mm forward and lifted it 25-30mm higher so the diff housing is protected by the gearbox folks .