Beetle disc brake conversions

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 11 Sep 2007, 2:34 pm

#611423

Hi all

My 58 bug is in need of some attention to its brakes and rather than rebuild the stock stuff i was thinking of an upgrade to discs all round. There are a few kits from places in the US and one in Aus (volksconversions) like this:

http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=22-2880&Category_Code=129101

or this

http://www.airkewld.com/parts/proddetail.php?prod=2000

I haven't priced up freight and import duties yet but prices don't seem too bad for what you get.

Anyone had any experience of doing this?

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,473 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 11 Sep 2007, 3:10 pm

#611430

dont forget richard at vforce has the conversions as well

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 11 Sep 2007, 4:03 pm

#611434

call boris at Vintage Vee Dub
Their conversion will fit straight on and not widen the track, it actually narrows it by 6mm a side.
it also uses commodore pads which will be available forever
I used it on my 66 and I am extremley happy with the braking performance
😁

Keeping it real !

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 11 Sep 2007, 5:26 pm

#611444

Hi guys, many thanks, i love this forum such a mine of info.

Silver, did you do the rear end as well? Did you change the master cylinder from the single circuit type?

I've noticed that the US kits all seem to widen the track which i didn't want.

Cheers

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 11 Sep 2007, 8:44 pm

#611481

I had already changed the rear end to type three drums in anticipation of Boris having these kits finished, and I run the dual master cylinder.
I am pretty fussy about most things and looked at all my options including importing a set from Germany but these happen to be the best option and they are local ! and therefore accountable for stuff ups or available to fix problems
Go for it

Keeping it real !

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 12 Sep 2007, 6:52 am

#611544

all the USA kits and the Volksconversion one widen the track

Fit a new dual master cyclinder and 2 new rear flexiable hoses as well as the front disc kit from Vintage 02-9789-1777
The kits comes with rotors, calipers, bearings and hoses easy to fit takes only a few hours

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 12 Sep 2007, 9:28 am

#611577

I figured i'd change all the brake lines while i was at it. Mine has the small metal fluid reservoir inside the wheel well. Can i continue to use this (or a shiny new one) with the dual circuit master cyclinder.

How about the rear discs? Worth doing? These are in most need of work, drums are pretty worn.

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 12 Sep 2007, 9:36 am

#611582

oh and i guess i'll need an engineers report too?

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 12 Sep 2007, 9:38 am

#611584

you should use the split compartment fluid reservoir with the dual circuit cyclinder other wise you loose the safety advantage of doing the conversion Use the standard VW reservior then you can see the fluid level easy, chuck the shinny one away

Rear dics i suspose it if you want to go racing I have Late model Type 3 rear drums and they work great with the dics at the front

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 12 Sep 2007, 1:44 pm

#611613

garycookson wrote:oh and i guess i'll need an engineers report too?

yep... what other mods are you doing? do engineers all at once

Pay your debts, CxxT

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 12 Sep 2007, 2:55 pm

#611623

The only reason i thought about rear discs was being able to buy a kit rather than trying to scout around for secondhand stuff. I guess it is overkill and the handbrake probably gets complicated.

If i go for late drums i assume i swap over backing plates and all internals. Does anything else need to be modified? Hang on though i want to keep 5 bolt wheels...

Thanks for info re brake reservoir. From my research it looked like it was hard to get the dual circuit type, i thought i could have a t piece in the line from the reservoir and keep the old school one. It's a big reservoir so even if one circuit failed there would be plenty of fluid in it.

Questions questions

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,473 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 12 Sep 2007, 2:56 pm

#611624

just get new drums and get them drilled in the wide 5 pattern

“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

1SlowBeetle Commited Dubber

56 posts · joined Sep 2007 · 15 Sep 2007, 8:17 am

#612083

I have a 59 and am looking at the same things, so thanks for the info. I do have one other question that isn't here.

What is the advantage of staying with the wide 5 pattern and these custom kits, over changing stud pattern and running latter model VW disks and callipers. Especially in light of the larger rears (and in my case and gearbox upgrade) that has the smaller stud pattern already?

Cheers...

59 bug w 1916cc

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 15 Sep 2007, 10:26 am

#612096

The Vintage discs kits are available in any stud pattern

most people only want to upgard the front to discs and stay with the wide 5 rears so that why the rotors have been made this way

The better option is to upgrade the rears as well and find after market wheels that are not VW stud pattern and havethe discs are rear rortos drill accordingally

that leaves a varity of options

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 17 Sep 2007, 9:37 am

#612425

Looking at the US kits, it is a lot cheaper if you change over to standard 4 stud VW. J bugs in California do a complete front and rear kit with master cyclinder and handbrake system which comes up at just under 1000 dollars US. Ready to bolt on without mods.

You can still do it with wide 5 but it adds another 400 US or so. I was keen to keep the wide 5 as i like the old school look it gives as i was planning on a set of wheels at a later date but maybe now i just buy a set of 4 stud wheels with the difference in price. Not sure if the jbug system widens the track.

http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=BrakeComponents

Ok so it is US and not as good for having a local person to call - not to mention supporting local business - but the price is very good. Shipping is about 100 USD plus import duty which i think will be 10% of purchase price.

Airkewld (again US) have the most awesome looking system for a little bit more money but with really slick brembo style calipers. You can also buy drop spindles while you are at it. These widen the track though by 1inch.

I'll make a decision soon and post some pics of the changeover when it happens.

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 17 Sep 2007, 12:54 pm

#612439

Anyone got any thoughts on reasonably priced wheels using the standard 4 bolt vw pattern that would suit the look of my early beetle. here is link to how it looks.

http://www.twentytwentyone.net/veedub/dub.html

I'd prefer to keep the wide 5 steels but it does add to the cost.

Cheers, thoughts appreciated.

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 17 Sep 2007, 7:31 pm

#612450

silver wrote:call boris at Vintage Vee Dub
Their conversion will fit straight on and not widen the track, it actually narrows it by 6mm a side.
it also uses commodore pads which will be available forever
I used it on my 66 and I am extremley happy with the braking performance
😁

Oh well My Good advice might go unheeded
be careful of the overseas ones they will widen your wheel track ,and what pads do they use?

Do you want the discs you want ?,,,,, or the ones you want to pay for?

Keeping it real !

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Sep 2007, 6:58 am

#612538

Silver sometimes you carnt tell people

Let them work it out for themselves cheap is often nastie

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 18 Sep 2007, 9:48 am

#612557

Hey guys, i am taking advice and i haven't decided which way to go as yet. I appreciate all comments but it would be equally foolish of me not to explore all options.

I've priced up the local option. For the same price as a set of front discs and rebuilding my old drums I can get a complete US kit front and rear with drop spindles and a new master cyclinder with a wide 5 bolt pattern. They use Golf pads so no problem with parts plus these are the big classic beetle suppliers in the US which is a much bigger market than here so i doubt quality would be an issue.

The conversions are bolt on and yes they widen the track by 2.5mm per side which i think i can live with.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 18 Sep 2007, 10:47 am

#612562

and yes they widen the track by 2.5mm per side which i think i can live with.

You wont when the tyres rub from the wider wheels you chose

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 18 Sep 2007, 12:18 pm

#612572

garycookson wrote:Hey guys, i am taking advice and i haven't decided which way to go as yet. I appreciate all comments but it would be equally foolish of me not to explore all options.

I've priced up the local option. For the same price as a set of front discs and rebuilding my old drums I can get a complete US kit front and rear with drop spindles and a new master cyclinder with a wide 5 bolt pattern. They use Golf pads so no problem with parts plus these are the big classic beetle suppliers in the US which is a much bigger market than here so i doubt quality would be an issue.

The conversions are bolt on and yes they widen the track by 2.5mm per side which i think i can live with.

many engineers will NOT certify callipers that are not used on an Australian market car and some calliper brackets I've seen are a bit thin and/or welded, which is also a no-no

Here's some "light" reading about the requirements and legalities of brake conversions that may help with your research

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=36884#pid528530

[ Edited on 18-9-2007 by VWCOOL ]

Pay your debts, CxxT

garycookson Commited Dubber

60 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 18 Sep 2007, 4:48 pm

#612624

Thanks, that's great info.