I know your shell is already painted but you could run a cage so its cut into the body and under the headlining it would be a lot of work but well worth it. A pillars would be the tricky ones.
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
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The problem with that approach is that while the cage is made part of the body and it does make the pan more rigid, any flexing that does occur is also flexing the entire shell. Having a cage plated to the body is great in race cars but I think the car wouldnt look pretty for very long.
I am hoping the ICV route is the way to go, as you can still build a beach bugy with a roll cage under ICV rules. With ny luck my engineer will look at the previous modifications and just issue an ICV plate/paperwork for me. Im going to see him again today.
The other possability is I could just bullshit any cops that pull me over and question the roll cage. When I show them 3 mod plates with 9 codes in the luggage compartment they will probably just scratch their heads and go ummmm... ok.
it's not just the cops you should be worried about, but any insurance mob that comes out to investigate your car should it be involved in an accident (knock on wood that your not in any accident) as they will deem your car not legal and then possibly leave you in a big mess to sort though on your own.......push your engineer to find a way to get it legal. Keep up the great work👍👍
2443TT wrote:I think its the beginning of QLD transport trying to crack down on modifications for all vehicles. Technically anything that is not OEM equipment is not legal under QLD transport rules. If they are serious about it and enforce it, it could take 90% of the cars off the road. A prime example is having an exhaust system replaced with a non genuine part by any exhaust system repair shop... illegal technically.
There may be a loophole under ICV rules.
Great build good to see the progress.
On this info your engineer is giving you ... .. well lets just say I wouldn't beleive what you are hearing unless it is in writting. I am building an ICV and compliancing a few LH5 / 6 with exemptions and they all have roll cages and it is not an issue in QLD. I am unsure what he thinks he has read but it isn't current or future plan in QLD.
QLD are changing to DOTARS which also allows cages.
To make your car an ICV would kill it, to start with your engine would have issues as would your body work etc. Just stick to your stock 66 beetle with mods and you will be fine.
Engineers are interesting critters......
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx AustraliaHi
The advice I got from my NSW engineer is a 1/2 cage is OK, but the car would have to registered as a two seater, so no back seat passengers. There is a set of conditions for rear occupant head clearance and a Beetle shell can't comply.
Steve
Yeah they sure are interesting. Everyone has their own ajenda.
I think part of it is that this guy is used to working on V8's, holden and fords. Or maybe he is tring to get me worried that it shouldnt be that "easy" to get the car passed. I spoke with him again yesterday and he has changed his mind that he can now approve a cage, but he did say that if the rules changed a potential ban on cages could be back dated to make all current roll cages illegal. That would piss off a lot of people, especially in SA and WA where the rules for mods are more relaxed than they are in QLD.
I'll just accept it and move on and try and have the chassis ready for approval inside a month.
Steve, i've heard that same thing about no back seat as well. Im ok with that as i was not going to have a back seat anyway.
2443TT wrote:Yeah they sure are interesting. Everyone has their own ajenda.
I think part of it is that this guy is used to working on V8's, holden and fords. Or maybe he is tring to get me worried that it shouldnt be that "easy" to get the car passed. I spoke with him again yesterday and he has changed his mind that he can now approve a cage, but he did say that if the rules changed a potential ban on cages could be back dated to make all current roll cages illegal. That would piss off a lot of people, especially in SA and WA where the rules for mods are more relaxed than they are in QLD.
I'll just accept it and move on and try and have the chassis ready for approval inside a month.
Steve, i've heard that same thing about no back seat as well. Im ok with that as i was not going to have a back seat anyway.
Mm ok retrospectively applying legislation is a can of worms in its own. In short it is not allowed under the Federal Legislation. Based on that I would have to once again suggest that your engineer is incorrect and needs to check his sources.
Although a little off subject it pisses me right off when engineers make unsubstantiated motherhood statements in an attempt to make customers think they are doing them a favor when in fact they are only doing the job they are being paid to do. Most seem to do it to get away with charging more $$$$
Anyway look fwd to seeing this baby roll and bump..
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx AustraliaMost seem to do it to get away with charging more $$$$
You go that right! When I had my mod plate for my brakes, seats and seatbelts fitted the engineer was going to charge me for having meetings with a local vw mechanic to discuss factory positions of seat belt mounts, and what really were the stock wheel track measurements for a 1966 beetle. He had out of date data... and this is my problem ? Actually yes it was...
🙁
After about 4 seperate inspections i said, look if you dont approve the brakes today im taking them off the car and going back to drums. And then you wont get paid at all. He approved them about 5 minutes later... Thankfully that engineer is not around anmore and there are better local guys to deal with.
Hi
When I told my local engineer what I wanted to do he couldn't get of the phone fast enough, the same guy now writes a column in ZOOM magazine, read his answers and you can see where he's coming from. The guy I'm using now has already done some WRX powered bugs already.
You must choose your engineer wisely otherwise it will cost $$$s
Steve
there are allways ways and means around any problem just keep knocking on the right doors and dont bother with the mormans!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
Agreed. My second blue plate came a lot easier when I got the turbo modification approved. They went over it all with the car on the hoist and presumed that since I was able to drive the car there that it worked well enough to approve. At the time it still hadnt been tuned though. They even let the vent to atmosphere Bov and Wastegate through no problems! $120 in and out and no problems at all.
I really hope the mod plate for my suspension, gearbox, seating, and cage come just as easily this time. I think it will as i've seen some of the abominations this guy has approved in the past. Wastegates next to brake fluid resivours etc...
1303Steve wrote:When I told my local engineer what I wanted to do he couldn't get of the phone fast enough
Hi Steve,
You have to understand that when you talk to an engineer over the phone he doesn't know who you are, for all he know's you could be the RTA doing a "random" check to ensure he's complying with the rules.
Best thing to do is speak to them in person to discuss what you want to do and you'll find that they are generally more receptive to your ideas.
Cheers
Hi
He knew who I was, he was familiar with my yellow bug and we have a mutual friend. Anyway fitting a WRX motor to VW is a straight forward swap, not the sort of thing the RTA would use to trap him, this was before the G50.
Steve
At last the steel I have had on order for 5 weeks has finally arrived and I've been able to get some work done on my own car again. Although I didnt get much done as I also ended up changing some suspension settings on the back of my GTR today too.
So today's VW project was to start with the floor pan replacement and strengthening. The idea i had was to replace the outer edge of the factory pan with a 20x20x3 angle welded to 40x3 flat bar, and have it in such a way that it still bolts to the pan in the factory locations. As the steel is thicker and it ties to the front suspension, when bolted to the body it will be far more rigid.
The outer edge of the torsion housing has yet to be welded to the under side of the pan but when thats done the horizontal rigidity of the chassis should be considerably stronger. There is still seat mounting points to be welded in. Floor pan sections will be 1mm sheet aluminium and will be screwed and glued into place after the pan is painted.
The old pan section is still there to allow me to easily drill the holes for where it bolts onto the body in the correct places but will be being cut once thats done. Here are the pics.
Cheers,
Ian
Looking good there Ian.
I used 40 x 40 RHS on mine and it definitely stiffen the chassis up. A box frame of any sort is something that should be done for a high horsepower bug.
Have you got the overhang going towards the outside of the RHS or inside? can't make it out from the pics.
I'm guessing the overhang is for the bolts to go through onto the body.
Cheers
D
The outer edge is 40mm, drops down 20, and then inwards 20 if that makes sense. Its 40mm flat bar welded to 20mm angle. The outer edge when drilled and bolted to the body will be rigid enough for what im doing once a cage is added as well. I though about box section for a moment, but I think it will add too much weight. I know the car will be heavier that stock, but I dont want to make it too fat.
100mm at the back end where it runs parallel to the torsion housing is 5mm plate, and also at the front, there is a section that joins the rear side of the mcpherson strut tower to the floor pan now, which is also 5mm plate.
Latest news...
Well both floor pan sections are finished except for seat mounts. I still have to drill the drivers side but the passenger side has been marked, measured and drilled with a small 4mm hole for starters.
This weekend I stripped off all the suspension and tipped the pan on its side so I can more easily finish the pan off. Here are a couple more pics of the pan outer edge.
And the under side just in front of the torsion housing the under side has been braced with 20x20x3 angle for 350mm. Where the torsion housing supports the pan will be re-enforced later on when i decide exactly what I am going to do there.
Here is where the mcpherson strut rear support joins onto the pan. That plate section there is 6mm plate where it joins onto the pan.
And from another angle. I am contemplating whether to weld the end of that 65x65x6mm blue suspension supports, or if i should just get the finishing welds done and drill the bottom of it along with a 35-40mm hole saw to remove a little weight and allow water drainage. I'll work that out later.
Ive started tidying up all the butchering that had to be done to get the 930 box to fit. In front of the torsion housing i'd cut 2.5mm plate to fit the gap, hammered hell out of it to create a pleasable shape and then welded it all into place. The area around the torsion housing has been built up considerably. At its thickest its got to be nearly 8mm.
This combined with the how around the torsion housing has been boxed into the front gearbox mounts and floor pan, plus a roll cage should make the rear end plenty rigid enough.
I'd hope the chassis can be at the sand blasters inside 2 weeks but realisticly with work commitments it will probably be 5. But its been good to be able to work on it all weekend for a change.
Cheers,
Ian
Madness, I love it. Keep up the good work Ian.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=509922
Ian
just saw this if you are still looking for options on the case..... I remember you said you were looking for a case. I think this might be bigger than the bore size though
...................( O \ l / O ).....................
That case used to me domonic's from CB performance. I did consider it a while back but the 4" mains put be off due to this being a street engine and issues that can arrise from flanged cranks and T4 mains. Its also setup for autocraft heads, and i have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to keeping things moderately sane.
It would be a good argument, but I think the T5 case is probably a stronger case once modified than the Scat case. My Rocky Jennings T5 case should be here in another month or so.
Well today I managed to finish work at mid-day, so i spent the afternoon burning metal getting the last of what i can do done. Because this weekend I have a professional welder coming by to do all the finishing welds (and tidy up my messy work).
So today's progress saw then other side of the torsion housing re-enforced and completion of the trailing arm pivot point on the chassis.
So here are the latest pics.
I need to buy a small drill attached flapper wheel to tidy up in there properly. I used a hand file for a while but tired of that quickly
Next on the list is seat mounts, then finishing welds, and finally sway bar mounts. Then the whole lot needs to be assembled one more time for the engineer to inspect as a rolling chassis. That will hopefully be done inside the next 2 weeks.
Cheers,
Ian.
I've got one of those drill flapper wheels (which I must admit, I tend to use in the die grinder) - but what I normally use is the flap wheels for a 115mm angle grinder (or is it 125mm?).
Looks tidy dude.... can imagine it blasted and in 2pak paint as well....
Reub
Hi everyone,
Well the finishing welds were delayed till tomorrow as the guy doing the work for me has had to do some emergency home repairs on account of a land slide that happened thrusday night. We had 8 inches of rain in one evening... no water restrictions up here.
So today i finished seat mounts instead and tidied up the workshop a little.
Here are some pics...
It looks close, but there is actually about 20cm of clearence from the trans to the chassis.
Not long till the body is uncovered and fitted to the new chassis. 4-6 weeks with any luck. I still have water, oil, fuel and brake lines to do, and sway bar mounts.
Cheers,
Ian
Damn Ian.... Reub has been keeping me up to date on your shenanigans... But this is utter madness!!!😂 Top work mate.... You leave my dismal efforts for dead!!! Best of luck with the inspection....
Great work Ian, this and Project GTO are pursuading me to go all out with my 1303 cab's chassis with G50 and EJ20t...
Rich
Hi everyone,
Well all the finishing structual welding has been completed today. I have to finish one seat mount and the sway bar mounts and then re-assemble it all for inspection. Here are the pics...
Curious to know what all this work will weight when its all done?
ricola wrote:Great work Ian, this and Project GTO are pursuading me to go all out with my 1303 cab's chassis with G50 and EJ20t...
Rich
Mate you'd be crucified for doing that to an original cab over here.....
cut up a shitter and do it but not something worth keeping stock.
ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
Its only metal.
Bring it on.
When will some one do that with a Heb?
Three-rotor up front would be cool.
Actually just kidding.
It has to be air cooled, but must be fast.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
