Skip to content
Aussieveedubbers

Shortened Sumps

0 likes
Share Share on Facebook Share on X Share on Reddit
Log in to reply

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#659992
72type3wrx wrote:$551 AU for that work of Euro Art, compared to $550 for a strange lookin apprentice machanic custom off road unit.

Come on Brad time to lower your prices mate.
Brad doesn't own or work for custom offroad, so the price has nothing to do with him. He is simply pointing out the work required to make the steel unit if very high. There is a lot of labour involved hence the price. Making more doesn't make it any cheaper. If you look at the custom offroad unit, you will see it is very time consuming to make as it is quite an intricate shape with a lot of fine welding (look at all the crush tubes welded top and bottom).

The alloy unit is the opposite. It has very little labour, just the cost of the original casting / mould set-up. The more that person makes the cheaper it is, and/or once the set-up costs are covered making more is cheaper. Sure they will be some machining after the casting process.

And as already pointed out, the cast unit looks pretty but has very little in the way of functional internals.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

72type3wrx Seriously Crusin Dubber

152 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#659995
dont know where i got Brad from then, could have sworn he replied to me from a email i sent to custom off road,

any way, sorry brad your prices are still great!
1972 Type 3 Fast back, RS Turbo 2ltr, VF34/P20,
3" Exhaust, WAIC, Wolf 3D, Sard 540cc's, Swirl pot and VL Fuel pump, Apexi CAI, Custom VW 4spd with straight cut albins 3.87 R&P, stock brakes

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#659999
72type3wrx wrote:$551 AU for that work of Euro Art, compared to $550 for a strange lookin apprentice machanic custom off road unit.

Come on Brad time to lower your prices mate.
JUST FOR THE RECORD....I run a CVD sump on my Manx and have had no problems with either leakage or fitment.In fact I've had a few very hard knocks to the sump that have been caused by concrete smashing through the bash plate and the sump has survived,where the alloy one would not have. I suggest you do your own research and decide what you want before you jump on any particular "band wagen" as they would need to suit your appliction and not someone elses. I WILL NOT bag anyone elses products and would suggest you do the same. As with anything from overseas,wheather it be an engine or a light bulb,warranty is something that will not exist once it leaves foreign shores,where a local product will be warranted. Choose carefully before you take the gamble.
Rant over...

Michael
tssnq.com.au

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#660005
72type3wrx wrote:dont know where i got Brad from then, could have sworn he replied to me from a email i sent to custom off road,

any way, sorry brad your prices are still great!
Brad used to (jointly) own COR. He sold it (his part). So he knows why the prices are what they are, but he is no longer responsible for them and gets nothing out of justifying why they are what they are.
Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

ratbug aka toddy101

439 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#660030
Here is a pic of my COR sump. Yes its a bit shorter than the alloy one. If I remember correctly it was about 20mm.



Here's a pic of the two installed side by side. COR is on the left (a bit hard to see, but the bottom is pretty much in line with the bottom of the exhaust., Alloy on the right.

Sharbuilt Beach buggy with Subaru 2L Turbo
Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
Click here for wiring looms

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#660044
72type3wrx wrote:$551 AU for that work of Euro Art, compared to $550 for a strange lookin apprentice machanic custom off road unit.

Come on Brad time to lower your prices mate.
Ok .. not ...

As Wes has pointed out I no longer own, work for or at COR / CVD. But I did the pricing on the sumps.

The one Ratbug posted is the old design, the new ones are CNC cut and much nicer. I will post a pic on the one on the Geko later as it is now generation.

In relation to pricing, although I would not usually do it with these sumps I will post the cost. Keeping in mind this is the now cost and does not take into account the initial design and many hours of development.

These were the COR Sump costings in Jan last year, since then steel has gone up over 25% as have labour rates.


Supply and cut of upper and bottom sump plates - $85 (in a batch of 6 as that is what they fit on a sheet)
Crush tub material $6
Stainless elbow for oil pickup $7
Acid clean and Zinc Coat - $11
Total Parts - $109
Cleaning of supplied stock sump 1/3 hr
Cutting of Stock sump - 1/3 hr
Cutting and modification to oil pickup, tig weld, test fit - 1/3 hr
Fabrication of shortened sump. presure test and clean - 4 hrs

Total Labour - 5 hrs
Hourly Rate - $88
Total Labour Cost $498

Total Sump Cost - $549

Since then labour has gone up to $99 an hr for fabrication and as said steel has gone up over 25%.

The price has been left at $550 as they are done as a fill in job.

As for the apprentice doing them .. ah nope done by a fabricator with about 15 yrs on the tools. CVD / COR have tried several times to outsource the fabrication of the units to get costs down and have had a few guys jump at the chance. Funnily enough once they do one they see that there is no big $$$$ to be made as they take at least 4 hrs even if you are batching them.

Anyway I have said enough on the sumps.

It is interesting to hear that there is no duites on under $1000. I flew back from the USA a few months back and the paperwork I was given was $400. I also had a RJES sump delivered and the paperwork there again reflected $400 as the limit. I hope this has changed.

I have some L Bug parts in the mail so I hope that the limit is $1k as I hate paying tax's...

It really is horses for courses.. I am looking at a Bag@ sump for my Iguana because the Turbo Headers hang down belog the CVD one and they are not made to fit a Turbo engine anyway due to oil cooling lines. I would want baffles in there though.
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

72type3wrx Seriously Crusin Dubber

152 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#660201
Couple of more options to consider:

http://www.ballisticmotors.com/CSS/partssubaru.htm
$250US


http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=69
$250US


http://www.lola332.com/subaruparts.htm
$unknown


http://www.hyperflow.com.au/0607_sump.html
$unknown




http://www.sharpbuilt.com.au/dunebug.htm
$unknown - Australia
1972 Type 3 Fast back, RS Turbo 2ltr, VF34/P20,
3" Exhaust, WAIC, Wolf 3D, Sard 540cc's, Swirl pot and VL Fuel pump, Apexi CAI, Custom VW 4spd with straight cut albins 3.87 R&P, stock brakes

mackaymanx Custom Title Time!

1,611 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#660203
Ok a few of those don't fall into the catagory of a shortened sump and are just high capacity performance sumps but they do look very nice. Outfront Motorsports shorten their sumps and just raise the oil level to regain capacity [ http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/oil_pan.htm ] I won't go into the merits or pitfalls of that, it's too much of a minefield. But they also offer sumps with "kickouts" as they call them.


MRT Rally Sump
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."

[IMG]https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-18600.png[/IMG]

X-I-TED Commited Dubber

55 posts · joined May 2008 ·

#660317
outfront are imo the leading subie conversion business in this game at the moment they field test their gear in "real" off road punishing conditions not some lame dirt road or just "up the beach" a few times
are the thousands n thousands of splits really rare???

BlueV2 Seriously Crusin Dubber

193 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#661543
Sharpbuilt sell shortened sumps which have the original baffles and surge plate in it. Uses the original dip stick and comes with a shortened oil pickup. Costs $430 exchange.

Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#661576
BlueV2 wrote:Sharpbuilt sell shortened sumps which have the original baffles and surge plate in it. Uses the original dip stick and comes with a shortened oil pickup. Costs $430 exchange.

mmmm do they do one that goes on the bottom of the engine as well or just on the top ?
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

BlueV2 Seriously Crusin Dubber

193 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#661642
hehe. Its easier to fit them on the top....saves having to get under the motor and get dirty and stuff... 😂
Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#665532
I spent the dollars getting the laser cutter to copy the flatbolt on setion from a stock sump. He will now bust out copies in3mm, with all the holes perfectly drilled for $60. you then have to make a sump under it. Ill find thenumber ...he is in castle hill...goes by the name of johny no fingers...he has vw's.

matt

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#665546
boof2332 wrote:I spent the dollars getting the laser cutter to copy the flatbolt on setion from a stock sump. He will now bust out copies in3mm, with all the holes perfectly drilled for $60. you then have to make a sump under it. Ill find thenumber ...he is in castle hill...goes by the name of johny no fingers...he has vw's.

matt
Can you pm me that number please Matt........thanx

Transparu Seriously Crusin Dubber

154 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·

#665551
Any contact details please?
Dave

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#665566
I have to buy a couple in the next week, he probably wont sell them to anyone without the nod from me as i paid $200 for him to work out the computer measurements so he can just bustuot copies. In saying that i do not really care who gets one so ill talk to him.
Still trying to find his number....near castle hill tavern

matt

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#665568
call me 0416 115 993 and il grab one if you want one.

matt

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670302
Hi

I received my sump today from Bugsat5speed, thanks to Mike H for going to all the trouble to organise a group buy. I'm very happy with it and cant wait to fit it.

Steve

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670307
Buggy Brad wrote:
liam66 wrote:I charge $100 an hour for fabrication (workshop costs eat about $50/hour)
Theres $50 worth of steel and laser cutting in that. Considering that design uses the original top 2/3rds, it's not rocket science.
There's not 5.5 hours of labour in the first one and certainly less in any after that.
We've just had a custom sump made for a commodore v6 in a rock buggy, baffled and windage tray fitted. all from scratch, ( i.e not a chopped off original) extra heavy base, 5 day turnaround, $450 in bare metal. Guaranteed leak free.


But thats not the point, I 'm trying to avoid a modified original or a fabricated sheet metal one.
I wasn't gunna buy into this argument but can't help myself.

Yes Liam I know you have a shop an can fab and yes I know you are in la la land if you think you can make one the same as CVD in under 5.5 hrs ......

If you actually bothered to look at the sump you will see a few things that make it the best option on the market if you don't want some poser alloy unit.

The CVD sump is the only sump on the market that gives more than 50mm of ground clearance back. At 85mm it is way out in front .. 35mm is a lot in the subie converted VW world.

The CVD sump has been CAD designed and not slapped together by some apprentice in a few hours. The CAD design was done to ensure that oil capacity was retained, factory dip stick could be used and factory oil surge issues where a thing of the past.

The CVD sump is provided exchange and done so to ensure a perfect fit. They use the top 45mm or so of the factory sump and the factory pickup which is modified to suit. Crush tubes are added to allow the sump to bolt up easily and still allow factory engine mounts to be used.

As I hate internet wanna be's, and I know you are not one of them I will buy 10 sumps cuts off you for $50 each as per your above post. That would be $500, so let me know when I can have them and I will pay you the $$$. You and I know that ain’t gunna happen and if it does I can onsell them to CVD and still make money on what CVD are paying for them, even buying them in batches of 20 the cut length is such that the cost is over your $50 without material and design time.

I even own my own CNC Cutter and would be flat out doing them for $50 even with bugger all overheads.

So u gunna put your fab skill where you mouth is ? or have I gotten it wrong and you are just another internet quoting tyre kicking 4WD fab shop that likes to slag of prices of others saying you can do it cheaper than everyone else but never following through ???
Good to hear the Bug@5's arrived. I have given up on Liam from BBM sending me the sump cut outs at $50 a set. Guess he was just another internet fabricator.
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#670316
Have you checked your emails Brad?????????
tssnq.com.au

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#670329
MickH wrote:Have you checked your emails Brad?????????
Yep .. nothing there from you though, sent you a PM
Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

liam66 Officially Full-On Dubber

260 posts · joined Oct 2005 ·

#670495
Buggy Brad wrote:
Buggy Brad wrote:
liam66 wrote:I charge $100 an hour for fabrication (workshop costs eat about $50/hour)
Theres $50 worth of steel and laser cutting in that. Considering that design uses the original top 2/3rds, it's not rocket science.
There's not 5.5 hours of labour in the first one and certainly less in any after that.
We've just had a custom sump made for a commodore v6 in a rock buggy, baffled and windage tray fitted. all from scratch, ( i.e not a chopped off original) extra heavy base, 5 day turnaround, $450 in bare metal. Guaranteed leak free.


But thats not the point, I 'm trying to avoid a modified original or a fabricated sheet metal one.
I wasn't gunna buy into this argument but can't help myself.

Yes Liam I know you have a shop an can fab and yes I know you are in la la land if you think you can make one the same as CVD in under 5.5 hrs ......

If you actually bothered to look at the sump you will see a few things that make it the best option on the market if you don't want some poser alloy unit.

The CVD sump is the only sump on the market that gives more than 50mm of ground clearance back. At 85mm it is way out in front .. 35mm is a lot in the subie converted VW world.

The CVD sump has been CAD designed and not slapped together by some apprentice in a few hours. The CAD design was done to ensure that oil capacity was retained, factory dip stick could be used and factory oil surge issues where a thing of the past.

The CVD sump is provided exchange and done so to ensure a perfect fit. They use the top 45mm or so of the factory sump and the factory pickup which is modified to suit. Crush tubes are added to allow the sump to bolt up easily and still allow factory engine mounts to be used.

As I hate internet wanna be's, and I know you are not one of them I will buy 10 sumps cuts off you for $50 each as per your above post. That would be $500, so let me know when I can have them and I will pay you the $$$. You and I know that ain’t gunna happen and if it does I can onsell them to CVD and still make money on what CVD are paying for them, even buying them in batches of 20 the cut length is such that the cost is over your $50 without material and design time.

I even own my own CNC Cutter and would be flat out doing them for $50 even with bugger all overheads.

So u gunna put your fab skill where you mouth is ? or have I gotten it wrong and you are just another internet quoting tyre kicking 4WD fab shop that likes to slag of prices of others saying you can do it cheaper than everyone else but never following through ???
Good to hear the Bug@5's arrived. I have given up on Liam from BBM sending me the sump cut outs at $50 a set. Guess he was just another internet fabricator.
Brad,
Hold on sport, I said there's $50 worth of steel in it, not that I'd supply the steel, cut them them out and send them to you for $50. It doesn't seem to hard too understand?

I didn't attack anyone's 'product' , just asked what the options are. Then when quizzed I said I wanted something more presentable- not half an old sump with a box welded on.

I didn't attack anyone personally! You don't know me and I don't know you from a bar of soap- although I believe I'm developing an opinion. You believe I'm a web-fabricator- fine. Beleive what you will. I really dont have the time or inclination to get into a dick size comparison with you.

I really dont care how well the COR pan is or isn't made- I don't want one. Hence the first post- what else is there?

You really think that CAD drawing the cutting diagram makes all the difference? It only has to get drawn once, save the file. Cut, fold and weld- it's not rocket science.

I'm sorry if I've offended you Brad, but i don't see why folks should get abused for looking for an option to your product. I'm perfectly entitled to spend my money somewhere other than COR- I don't like your product- get over it. I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the 'it's got to be ugly to work well' school.

type3dub Learner Dubber

10 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#670620
COR said it will take a few weeks and Sharpbuild said he can do it more or less straight away.

What I want to know is which sump will take the most battering?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#670651
what are you doing with the car? if offroad, then probably the COR sump. Otherwise, the sharpbuilt is probably quite adequate for anything else. If the car is lowered, an Ali sump guard would help either.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

type3dub Learner Dubber

10 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#670673
Ive got a piece of dirt out west, like 600k's lots of creek crossings and ruts in the dirt roads so it will be punished. You should have seen under my forrester 😁. Anyway I sent my sump off this morning to Custom Off Road cause their sumps look stronger. Prolly worth the wait I reckon.

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#670863
1303Steve wrote:Hi

I received my sump today from Bugsat5speed, thanks to Mike H for going to all the trouble to organise a group buy. I'm very happy with it and cant wait to fit it.

Steve
Thanx for the posetive comments Steve! Will do a picture trade when we fit ours to the new buggy!!!🤘
tssnq.com.au

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#670897
helbus wrote:
liam66 wrote:I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the 'it's got to be ugly to work well' school.
A lot of trailer queen vehicle owners I have seen have this approach in my personal opinion. Full stop.
Helbus, I think you'd be mightily impressed by some of the "ugly" things Liam66 has built. I certainly was...and none of them were trailer queens. Think tough truck challenge and you have the idea. 🤘
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#670900
MickH wrote:
1303Steve wrote:Hi

I received my sump today from Bugsat5speed, thanks to Mike H for going to all the trouble to organise a group buy. I'm very happy with it and cant wait to fit it.

Steve
Thanx for the posetive comments Steve! Will do a picture trade when we fit ours to the new buggy!!!🤘
spewin i missed this one.............PM how much they worked out at please

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·

#670907
$471 delivered to your door....I should have ordered 12 of them......and NO I made no money on them.
tssnq.com.au