Phil,
I found a VWA Review for September 1963 where the published sales numbers you obtained are different to those produced by Volkswagen Australasia in their own publication. A copy is attached. There are some decent differences and they may all be related to timing.
I also read where the Sedan made its debut in Australia on December 11th 1953 when exhibited in Melbourne. That is a couple of months later than the October date you indicated.
countrybuggybill
Hi Bill,
Yes there are some minor differences. They do seem to generally tally with some minor differences here and there. Yes timing could be the reason; also my figures come from the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries, while VW's figures could have come from the Victorian Chamber of Automotive Industries (separate organisation). Who knows? And which set of figures do we believe? At least now the VFACTS figures (which come from the FCAI) are universal.
That's the first time I have seen December 1953 stated as the Australian debut - I suppose they were displayed at Regent Motors (Spencer Motors)?
nother pic of a VW in action..
Been through Warracknabeal and walked through the old dealer buildings. The service entry and colour scheme was still there on the scott st building. all were totally empty though.
I don't know Victoria very well - I had to look at a map to even see where Warracknabeal is!
I do know that Daniels Motors, the local VW dealer, was at 14 Scott St from 1956 to 1968. You can't really trust Google Earth Street View to get the street numbers completely right, but that looks like the corner store below. It looks like it's the 'Wheatlands Warehouse' second-hand store. Around the corner, in Phillips St, you can see the former service entry and back compound.
From 1968 to 1974, Warracknabeal's new VW dealer was G.F. & L.M. Corazza, at 14 Franklin St. There's no Street View along this one, so I can't tell what's there. This one would need local knowledge.
OMG Phil this has become one GREAT obsession😎
Hi Phil
That was a really good read, thanks.
I notice one error:
If you visit
http://www.clubvw.org.au/Australian%20VW%20history.htm
see the headings:
1941 - 1959
1966- 1965 - but this covers 1960-1969, so shouldn't that be
1960- 1965
--------------------------
Kind Regards
Des
Phil,
Have found the info I referred to above on a visit to the Factory, will email it to you
Grahame
Grahame
visit my club site at
www.vwdcqinc.org.auDesh you are quite right, the 1966-65 heading is a typo. It should be 1960-65 as you say, as the pages are broken into 5-year chunks.
Unfortunately I only write the content; Steve1303 is our Webmaster and he does the headings! I will be updating the 2008 info shortly, so I'll try to get that typo fixed. Thanks for your feedback!
VW Sales figures for 2008.
Polo = 2362
Golf = 11632
New Beetle = 613
New Beetle Cabrio = 177
Jetta = 2936
Eos = 1852
Passat = 3297
Passat CC = 37
Tiguan = 1109
Touareg = 1066
VW Passenger Cars Total = 25,081
Caddy = 1725
Caddy Life/Camper = 289
Kombi = 2
Kombi Beach = 31
Caravelle = 90
Transporter = 1624
Transporter C/C = 267
Multivan = 286
Crafter = 480
VW Commercial Vehicles Total = 4,794
By my calculations VW has sold over 600,000 VWs since they were originally introduced.
All phaeton Approved
http://automuseum.volkswagen.de/home.html
click Themen this accesses galleries & tech info
phaeton's VW News Blog
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au
For Aussie Watercoolers
Aha, another person with access to VFACTS sales figures! (I have to sneak in the back way).
Yes I have written a detailed sales summary for VW's 2008 results, and how they compare with history, which will be in the Feb issue of Club Veedub's Zeitschrift magazine. VW's 2008 sales were the second-best ever, beaten only by 1964's result of 31,419. In fact in 1964 the Clayton plant produced over 34,000 VWs, as both complete cars and CKD kits were exported in those days.
Quite right Phaeton, VW passed 600,000 Australian sales in November 2008, but VWGA would not have been aware of it.
The next milestone will be Golf sales. VW has now sold 91,000 Golfs in Australia. As they are selling 11,000+ per year, the 100,000th Australia Golf is due around September this year. It should be quite a year for the Golf, given that the Mk6 is due for local release as well.
Thats cool figures for the Golf 😎
Looking forward to reading that article 🤓
Do you have the figures listed of a year by year account on PDF by any chances ?
I tried copying figures from the website but got bored of data entry lol.
All phaeton Approved
http://automuseum.volkswagen.de/home.html
click Themen this accesses galleries & tech info
phaeton's VW News Blog
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au
For Aussie Watercoolers
Hi All,
For those interested, this is the info I mentioned above and sent to Phil
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/images/Wolfsburginformation.pdf
Grahame
Grahame
visit my club site at
www.vwdcqinc.org.auHi Steve, sorry mate no I don't have any specific details on chassis numbers for cars imported /sold by VW Australia, or even how many were brought in. The FCAI, as I have mentioned, only records 'VW 1200' sales for 1961. On another post we were wondering about the numbers of Cabrios imported in '61; some had said 20, I think I was, but I had only heard of around half a dozen. I think there were only two on display at the Melbourne Show in 1961.
There are a couple of ways you could check, if you have any free time over the holiday period! The State Library of NSW in Macquarie St keeps old issues of Australian magazines and newspapers on file. They have Modern Motor from June 1954 on (Q629.205/1, Mitchell Library), as well as Wheels (NQ629.205/21) from May 1953. You could pop in there and ask them to retrieve the issues for 1961; the car magazines would have had Melbourne Motor Show special articles. This might give you more info on the 1961 Melbourne Show and the cars on show. I don't know what month of the year the Melbourne car show was/is - so you could always spend a happy afternoon reading ALL issues for 1961. Think of all the other cool VW stuff you might stumble across...
Phil,
Just got my birth cert back from Germany. Appears my car was one of the 1961 Melbourne Motor Show batch, as its marked as being delivered to Australia! Now I'll have to see if I can find anything at the library.
Cheers
Steve
Good stuff Steve!
A large local library (like mine at Bankstown) should have the Sydney Morning Herald on microfiche, but that will be Sydney-centric. The Sydney show was in August during the 1950s and 1960s, so I suggest you start with the August 1961 reel and see what you find. I don't know if the cabrios were on display in Sydney.
The Melbourne Motor Show was usually March or April, so try the Herald for those months too, but you might not find anything in the Herald. You might have to go to the State Library in town to look at the Melbourne Age on microfiche.
Good luck - let us know what you find.
Looking through old newspapers like this is fabulous. I have recently been looking through the Herald for August 1956, researching the '56 Ampol and Mobilgas trials for a future Zeitschrift article. It's like going back in a time machine.
Phil74Camper wrote:Hi Grumble, fantastic first-hand info there, many thanks! Yes according to the VW dealership lists (which I am trying to collect and turn into a spreadsheet), Mid-North Coast Motors at Crescent Ave were the first VW dealership in Taree, starting sometime before 1957. They moved to the Pacific Hwy (the lists were no more specific than that) in 1967. In 1974 they changed their trading name to 'M.N.C. Motors Pty Ltd' but this is obviously still the same business. The address was now listed as 70-80 Victoria St. This dealership closed (or stopped selling VWs anyway) sometime between 1978 and 1982, by which time another VW dealership, Taree Continental Car Sales, had started on the corner of Crescent Ave (Pacific Hwy) and Railway Pde. As far as I can tell, this dealer was still going in 2006 but was not listed for 2007. Do you have any photos of the old dealers when they were active? What is on the sites nowadays?
Sorry to be so long replying. Mid North Coast Motors moved to Taree South in early 1966 I think,I started there in late 1966,the business changed hands in approx 1970 to 2 partners who split up and then ran two separate franchises. John Cooling carried on at the Taree Sourh premises as Crescent Motors ( Datsun ) and Brian Booth moved the vw dealership MNC Motors to Victoria St in town,I am not sure when it closed down but probably late 1970's.Brian was unfortunately killed in a truck accident shortly afterwards. Taree Subaru took on the franchise and this operated under various owners until late 2007. The site of Mid North Coast Motors is now Fine Line Motorcycles ,MNC Motors is now Windscreens O'Brien and Taree Subaru still operate as such. I will try to obtain some old newspaper clippings of the dealership if possible.
As an afterthought I purchased my 1961 Karmann Ghia second hand from Roberts Auto Centre in Gosford Cheers Les
Thanks for the memories! Taree does not currently have a VW dealer, but who knows, a new one many start up the way VW sales are going.
Gosford is another town that had a lot of VW dealers over the years - 6 of them.
Roberts Auto Centre opened at 383 Mann St Gosford in 1961, replacing an earlier dealer called Midway Service Station on 'Pacific Highway'. Roberts Auto Centre moved (or expanded?) to 387 Mann St in 1968. They survived until at least 1982. By 1990 a new dealer called Central Coast Motors was listed at the same address, 387 Mann St, but they closed in 1992. Since then Gosford has had Noble Motors, 10 Pacific Hwy (1993-1999), Central Eurocars, 91 Pacific Hwy (2001-2002), and the current VW dealer, Central Coast Motor Group, 360 Mann St (2003-present).
Phil74Camper wrote:Today's VW Group Australia isn't perfect either - remember the Touareg ad, 'Announcing our first ever 4x4?' But they are a lot better than TKM/Inchcape.
Hi Phil,
You will find that people who sell cars, don't get attached to cars brands they sell...
they can switch to Ford from Holden etc...
its only a job... to them..
and the people higher up know nothing about the history of the cars they are selling...
and they didn't even know that VW sold a 4x4 Iltis years ago ???
plus the Kombi Synchros... ??
Lee
-
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
XXX-1.8T wrote:Hi Phil,
love your work but you refer to lanock motors are your sure its not meant to be Lennock motors?
Cheers,
Costa...
No... Lanock Motors were a BIG VW dealer back in the 60s...
they may have had more than one showroom???
I can remember seeing heaps of beetles with the Lanock motors decal in the rear window... back in the 60s..
LEE
-- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
VW Birth Certificates for beetles etc sold in the USA...
are virtually useless now...
they cannot verify the engine number or the M codes options..
a waste of money... IMHO...
I believe its due to staff shortages in the Museum....
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Phil74Camper wrote:Swantons was listed in the 1976 White Pages as being at Hudson St, same with the July 1976 VW dealership booklet.
In the 1977 White Pages, Swantons are listed at 71 Forest Rd (only). However, they are still listed at Hudson St in the June 1977 dealership booklet (which Phill Lander passed on to me).
The June 1978 dealership booklet is then updated to Forest Rd. Unfortunately, neither source lists Swantons as having two sites at once. I suspect LNC Industries was simply slower to update than Telecom was.
How long did the changeover process take, Steve? I know first hand that everything was at Forest Rd by 1981.
I fear that it will be impossible to establish a definitive record - but we'll try!
Hi Phil,
Here's my 2c worth. After working at John Owen Motors (VW dealers) at Kirrawee, I worked at Swantons, in their panel shop. This was in Forest Rd, Hurstville - behind their used-car lot. That was 1963.
Dick Swanton (then Swantovski) had a service station on Forest Rd - near Hudson St - in the 1950s called 'The Square Deal'. I think it was in opposition to Otten's 'Four Square' service station around the corner!
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
Hi Greg, wow always great to talk to someone who was actually there! Yes Steve Carter also worked at Swantons for a time, but a bit after you I think! I bought my first VW from the Forest Rd used car lot in '82. I wonder what ever happened to Dick Swantovski (probably passed on by now) and his family? There are 15 Swantons listed in the Sydney phone book, but NO Swantovskis.
I did find this period ad:
Probably wasn't very clear. Dick Swantovski - I think that's how it was spelled - changed his name to Swanton.
The panel shop, in Forest Rd, was run by John? Bedford. His brother, Ben was the service manager in the Hudson St complex. Don't know why I remember this stuff!
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
I'd actually heard that it was spelled 'Swantiski' but that's probably wrong. No worries, I'd guessed he had changed his name! And from the phone book, it looks like his descendents have decided to stick with 'Swanton' as well.
Do you have any old slides or photos of your old VW dealers Greg?
Sorry Phil, no photos or slides - never thought about any of that. Still have a few memories though.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
68AutoBug wrote:VW Birth Certificates for beetles etc sold in the USA...
are virtually useless now...
they cannot verify the engine number or the M codes options..
a waste of money... IMHO...
I believe its due to staff shortages in the Museum....
Lee
I agree about getting the birth certificate not being worth the money, but I did e-mail VW in Germany, quoting my car's details, and it was virtually the birth certificate in e-mail format, stating the Chassis No., Model, Production Date, Delivery Date, Destination and any "Increased Arrangements". Mine had an Automatic System Aerial.
Although I did quote my engine number to them, this was not included in the e-mail for verification. I can only think that as the cars were not CKD kits (for my '65 model anyway), they can't verify which engine went with which car.
Anyway, for those that may be interested, the e-mail is
dialoguecenter@volkswagen.de
The reply with the information came from
Ria.Kavemann@volkswagen.de
Hope this helps those out there wanting info on their car.
Norman
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!
CKD assembly was only from 1955-59. From 1959 they were fully manufactured - as many components made here as possible - and VW was even constructing an aluminium foundry to make the engine and transmissions. They were aiming for 95% local content and got as high as 80% or so before the project was wound up. CKD assembly returned in 1968.
So for 1959-67 Australian Beetles, the 'birth certificate' info from Germany is unreliable. Yes, Germany has no detailed Australian production information for those years. It did exist, but much of the local information was thrown out when VWA Ltd was dissolved in 1968, again in 1976 when the factory was sold, and again in 1987 when LNC in Sydney gave up the VW franchise.
Today's VWGA has no Australian info prior to 2001.
Is ebay safe to use? I've never been ripped off on ebay when buying internationally. Got ripped off buy a mega rich car company though. Very disappointed with my birth certificate. It says the car was delivered to Fiji. A lot of them say that apparently. Doesnt even tell me what colour it was. If only I could leave negative feedback.
Today's VWGA has no Australian info prior to 2001.
When I made initial enquiries with them, there retort was that as there were no computers in the 1960's, no records were kept. VW Germany didn't do too bad a job without modern day type computers, and had many more VW's produced there than we had here.
Also, the RTA (NSW) wasn't much more help when trying to chase up information on my car. There records were destroyed prior to 1988, due to storage space. Anything prior to 1988 is unavailable. I did do an online history check of my car, and the information in the report was good, but only from 1988 onwards i.e. How many owners, the usage of the car (business/private) the annual mileage as per pink slip records, whether it has been recorded as a write-off, but lacked first date of registration information
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!
Having had many discussions with ex Clayton employees regarding production numbers and information I dont believe VWA Ltd ever matched chassis numbers to engine numbers as part of the vehicle manufacturing process. Ex employees confirmed that VW Germany provided Clayton with a block of both engine and chassis numbers for Clayton to use. Clayton then started at the first number and worked their way through the pre numbered block of numbers.
The first time that chassis number and engine number were recorded together was at sale time of vehicle when the sales order required recording of both these numbers. Both number were also recorded on service log books.
I was lucky enough to acquire original documentation from the Production Manager which shows Clayton production numbers from day 1 through to the end in December 1975. It includes Type 1, Type 2 Type 3, Country Buggy. Passat and even Audi in later years. Up to 1965 the production numbers are by model only but from January 1966 the production numbers are month by month and model by model.
eg For December 1967 production was;
Model 112 98 units
Model 114 365 units
Model 118 9 units (Sunroof)
Total 472 units for December
There were no records of matched chassis and engine numbers as part of the production line process so the ability to provide detailed birth certificates was not available.
There were no computer records as everything was prepared in hand written records.
At least not everything of the records were destroyed.
countrybuggybill
