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 Blue65
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| posted on June 29th, 2015 at 09:24 PM |
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Which Petrol is good for a vintage Beetle?
Just wondering what sort of fuel is good for the vintage Beetle?
I had my engine redone a few years back so it can take unleaded fuel.
I find that the best sort of fuel seems to be BP Ultimax 98 Octane. But its expensive.
I've tried Shell's 98 Octane fuel - but for some reason it seems to be my engine run louder or rougher. Is it my imagination?
I've also tried Caltex/woolworth fuel - seems ok...
Any comments?
Does anyone also use additives or are they a waste of money?
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d3wy
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| posted on June 29th, 2015 at 10:50 PM |
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The discussion seems to be one that has been done a lot over time. From my research the general consesous was 95 octane or above is good. Avoid E10
(unless you are tuned and upgraded to suit). Lead additives are not necessary due to the heads being used in the bugs being made of material that
suited unleaded fuels. Brands and such are a bit of a public gratification game, you'll get bad fuel when you get bad fuel, the brand on the pump
wont mean anything when water gets in their tanks (see Eastern Creek Caltex) or similiar.
I think higher octane = lower burning temp, therefore more desired by most a/c nuts?
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h
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| posted on June 29th, 2015 at 11:03 PM |
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BP 98 octane, I've never had a problem for over the last 10 + years..
stick to what is good and it's been problem free for me..
it maybe a few cents more but WORTH every cent in the long run..
good luck 
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 helbus
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| posted on June 29th, 2015 at 11:18 PM |
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Our 1970 1600 twin port Beetle was designed for 'Super' petrol that was available at the time, and it runs well on 91 Unleaded fuel. My wife was
recommended to put a tank of 98 in it, and it would not run well at all. The timing and compression ratio was not set up for 98. So basically if you
have a stock 1600 twin port engine 91 is the right fuel, but if you have modified or improved the engine to run on a different fuel, then you need to
use that fuel.
Earlier engines from the 60's had lower compressions again, and back then there was 86 Octane 'Standard' fuel. It depends on whether your engine
has had the compression ratio upped, ad the timing suited to other fuels.
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vlad01
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| posted on June 30th, 2015 at 06:58 PM |
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BP ultimate has been the best fuel I found in regards to detonation resistance and power output. Also after may tests on fuel filters and fuel system
components its also one of the cleanest too.
Shell 98 is ok, but avoid small station with low turnover as its a very short shelf life. about 4 weeks. BP is about 6 months.
caltex non safeway vortex is ok, avoid safeway caltex like the plague. Low grade import fuel. Detonation prone and just bad all round.
Also avoid BP 95 premium, I do believe its just 91 with some octane boosting agent. For years i had trouble with it, i had made a little documentation
on that fuel on about site with the problems it causes.
It leaves a heavy fine powdered bright red residue that killed quite a few fuel pumps, blocks filters after few weeks and kills injectors( would mess
up carbs even worse) After 5 years of testing different stations I concluded it was that grade of fuel not any particular station. So avoid it like
the plague also!
Can't say anything about mobil other they were good when they existed many years ago.
7/11 I heard was really bad.
Apco also said to be shit.
United as far as I know is alright, my friends get best mileage out of their fuel, followed by BP ultimate.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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AA003
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| posted on July 1st, 2015 at 07:09 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbusEarlier engines from the 60's had lower compressions again, and back then there was 86 Octane 'Standard' fuel.
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I think that 86 was MON rating. Australia had 89 RON and it burnt a lot of valves out on VWs.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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helbus
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| posted on July 1st, 2015 at 05:56 PM |
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In regards to the burnt out valves, that would depend also on what valve seats and valves were fitted from factory. The later ones had better valve
seats. Someone will know the data. There wouldn't be many original 60's heads left that have not been repaired or replaced with hardened valve
seats
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbusEarlier engines from the 60's had lower compressions again, and back then there was 86 Octane 'Standard' fuel.
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I think that 86 was MON rating. Australia had 89 RON and it burnt a lot of valves out on VWs.
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psimitar
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| posted on July 1st, 2015 at 07:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
In regards to the burnt out valves, that would depend also on what valve seats and valves were fitted from factory. The later ones had better valve
seats. Someone will know the data. There wouldn't be many original 60's heads left that have not been repaired or replaced with hardened valve
seats
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbusEarlier engines from the 60's had lower compressions again, and back then there was 86 Octane 'Standard' fuel.
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I think that 86 was MON rating. Australia had 89 RON and it burnt a lot of valves out on VWs.
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The early 25/36HP motors don't have quite as hard seat material as later engines. Can't quite remember but think by 64 the new seat material was in
use but I don't think it'd be too easy to ascertain what is what unless someone knows if the heads part number changed with the better seats?
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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barls
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| posted on July 1st, 2015 at 10:39 PM |
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i found that any shell fuel and i was replacing the fuel reg after 30-40 minute of run time.
i run bp 95 or 98 depending on my financial state at the time.
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1303Steve
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| posted on July 2nd, 2015 at 09:11 AM |
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I run 98 in my sons bug 1904cc with higher comp, any old unmodified VW I use non E10 unleaded. Checking a 1302 & 1303 owners manual, 1300 &
1600 motors were made to run on 91 RON, higher grades wont hurt the motor, only your pocket
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HappyDaze
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| posted on July 2nd, 2015 at 09:17 AM |
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1200cc Formula Vees - basically stock 40hp engines - run 91 octane....not because it's cheaper, but because it gives MORE POWER !
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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vlad01
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| posted on July 2nd, 2015 at 11:15 AM |
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Yeah the comp would be too low to yield the energy from higher octane fuel, thus higher octane in low comp engines reduces power.
To yield best power from 98 you need at least 7.8 ish DCR, average engine static CR that would be around 9.5-10:1
E85 can take static CR up to 18:1 of course it depends on the DCR. E85 and E100 really start to shine above 13.5:1 or 9-10:1 on high boost. And it
drops engine running temps too!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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AA003
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| posted on July 2nd, 2015 at 06:32 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I run 98 in my sons bug 1904cc with higher comp, any old unmodified VW I use non E10 unleaded. Checking a 1302 & 1303 owners manual, 1300 &
1600 motors were made to run on 91 RON, higher grades wont hurt the motor, only your pocket
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The problem is that Australian fuel is never 91.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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ptjcmaavw
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| posted on July 18th, 2015 at 04:14 PM |
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I run a 1600 TP on Caltex 98 - works fine for me
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helbus
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| posted on July 18th, 2015 at 06:07 PM |
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Our 1600 TP will not run on 98 very well at all
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REDKG
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| posted on July 18th, 2015 at 07:16 PM |
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Shell 98 v-power had a reputation for a short shelf life amongst the V8 supercar teams. Also there were reports of it fowling plugs in air cooled
engines. Good reports for BP ultimate. Ethanol is no good for vw motors or most motorcycles. If I'm paying will go for 91 but few outlets have it in
my area. Normally just fill a jerry can with caltex 95 when filling the work car. In a fuel injected motorcycle I am 100% certain that 98 will give a
greater range than 95 or 91.Is it worth the extra cost ? Well that extra 20-30 kms might be the difference between walking or riding to the next pump.
On a carburettor engine the high octane fuel is wasted if not jetted accordingly. I also give a squirt of valve saver when I remember although it
isn't necessary for vw engines. Won't hurt and subaru always include upper cylinder lubricant at each service.
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waltermitty
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| posted on July 19th, 2015 at 12:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by helbus
Our 1600 TP will not run on 98 very well at all
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use the lowest octane possible before you get detonation. Its what your engine wants. Higher octane doesnt always mean more power either just more
stable less likely to detonate.
of course it also means that the tune matches as well especially timing.
If you are tuning for best economy and performance, higher octane than what your engine needs is not what you want.
When tune CR and Octane are matched you will get the best results and cooler temps.
Mitchell
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Blue65
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| posted on December 26th, 2015 at 03:15 PM |
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Lately my engine has been making a metallic gurgling noise when it goes uphill or sometimes when I accelerate on a higher gear 3rd - 4th.
What could be the problem.
In the past I blamed it on low octane - and switched to using a higher octane and that seems to cure it. But now even using BP98 does not seem to
help?
I should also add that I have not used my Beetle in the last 5 months because I was overseas. The tank has been refilled once already - maybe its a
case of bad petrol?
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waltermitty
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| posted on December 26th, 2015 at 03:49 PM |
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Check your timing that gurgle is detonation,
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
Lately my engine has been making a metallic gurgling noise when it goes uphill or sometimes when I accelerate on a higher gear 3rd - 4th.
What could be the problem.
In the past I blamed it on low octane - and switched to using a higher octane and that seems to cure it. But now even using BP98 does not seem to
help?
I should also add that I have not used my Beetle in the last 5 months because I was overseas. The tank has been refilled once already - maybe its a
case of bad petrol?
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23 windows ...8 too many!
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Blue65
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| posted on December 26th, 2015 at 04:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by waltermitty
Check your timing that gurgle is detonation,
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
Lately my engine has been making a metallic gurgling noise when it goes uphill or sometimes when I accelerate on a higher gear 3rd - 4th.
What could be the problem.
In the past I blamed it on low octane - and switched to using a higher octane and that seems to cure it. But now even using BP98 does not seem to
help?
I should also add that I have not used my Beetle in the last 5 months because I was overseas. The tank has been refilled once already - maybe its a
case of bad petrol?
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Thanks. I'll do that.
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 11:13 AM |
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I have a China crank and Scat pulley on my sons bug, both added up to being 8 degrees retarded, if your motor has non standard parts on it do a dead
stop test to find true TDC
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 11:17 AM |
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If the noise you motor is making is like steel ball bearing in a steel tin, thats pinking or pinging depending on where your from
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karmann141
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 11:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
I have a China crank and Scat pulley on my sons bug, both added up to being 8 degrees retarded, if your motor has non standard parts on it do a dead
stop test to find true TDC
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That's not very nice calling your son or his bug retarded The word
is "special".
Seriously, I thought pinging was detonation.
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1303Steve
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 02:54 PM |
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same thing
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barls
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 03:16 PM |
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the only one I've stopped using was shell. every time i used it within 15 of refilling my fuel regulator would fail and start pissing fuel out in to
the engine bay.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 06:39 PM |
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Some historical info on octane ratings for old leaded Australian petrol. These figures come from FCAI yearbooks (up to 1987)
June 1955 - Standard was regulated to be 79 octane, while Super was 90.
August 1959 - Standard upgraded to 83. Super was upgraded to 93.
November 1962 - Standard upgraded to 85. Super was upgraded to 95.
April 1964 - Standard upgraded to 87. Super was upgraded to 97.
August 1968 - Standard upgraded to 89. Super was upgraded to 98.
August 1979 - Standard now available in both 89 and 92. Super adjusted down slightly to 97.
July 1985 - Unleaded fuel debuts with octanes 91/93.
July 1987 - Super 'premium' unleaded debuts with octane 96. Since adjusted slightly to 95. Later 'super premium' fuels added at 98.
The Australian VW1300 owners' manual from 1966 specifies 87 octane (7.3:1 compression), so today's 91 is fine for stock VWs. Don't use E10 - it
should only be used in EFI VWs made after 1986.
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AA003
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| posted on December 27th, 2015 at 07:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Phil74Camper so today's 91 is fine for stock VWs.
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If it is actually 91.
You could always tell the VWs that used standard fuel. They had burnt out valves.
If you use a higher octane it will not hurt anything. If you use a lower octane it will cause damage.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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