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Author: Subject: bug@5speed's sump installed (pics)
Member72RSbug
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posted on August 30th, 2005 at 06:18 AM
bug@5speed's sump installed (pics)


install was pretty straightforward, only had to relocate 1 screw that interfered with the oil filter line.

Also shortened the oil pickup line inside the sump with 5 cm.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/844000-844999/844382_32_full.jpg


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/844000-844999/844382_33_full.jpg

the sump now doesn't come any lower then the exhaust manifold
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posted on August 30th, 2005 at 09:37 AM


Nice work!
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posted on August 30th, 2005 at 11:33 AM


got any before shots to show the change in depth?



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posted on August 30th, 2005 at 06:06 PM


Sorry, no before pics.
with the stock sump the engine sat entirely on the sump when it was on a wooden crate and I had to put some wood underneat it under the exhaust to keep it stable.
Now its stable as it is, it rests on both the sump and the exhaust since they now are the same depht.
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posted on August 30th, 2005 at 11:30 PM


From the side on picture the sump looks higher than the exhaust. What about the oil filter? That is my main concern with shortening. The guy on vwrx.com has relocated his filter which sounds like a good idea.

Rich




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posted on August 31st, 2005 at 12:22 AM


well there might be a small difference between the sump (has a little more clearance) and the exhaust but I don't think it's more then 1cm.
forgot to put on the new oil filter actually, but I think it doesn't come any lower then than the new sump.
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posted on August 31st, 2005 at 06:34 AM


Ooh thats nice, can't wait for mine to arrive!
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posted on August 31st, 2005 at 07:08 AM


Unless you are going off road, I do not think the filter will be a problem....If your concerned put a little skid plate under it, although I havnt heard of anyone damaging theirs on a street car yet.....

Matt




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posted on September 2nd, 2005 at 06:56 AM


Nice job!:yes:

Greetz,

Humby:cool:
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posted on September 8th, 2005 at 10:39 AM


The sumps have arrived!
A lot of work involved in making these. They are two separate pieces, so 3 surfaces have had to be machined flat then holes drilled and tapped to attach. They also have two plates welded in the base to prevent frothing/starvation at the pickup tube.
The sump weighs about 4.5kg including the hex socket cap screws that were supplied. This is about 2.2kg heavier than the original Subaru item, which weighs about 2.3kg.
Total cost worked out to be about $415, and that was after 'sharing' the funds transfer bank fee ($35!!) and shipping fee (82 euro) with Ratbag. Note, this was at the *special* price of 200 euro each. The normal price is 250 euro.

Will try and get some pics over the weekend.nn[ Edited on 8-9-2005 by Jenny ]
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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 12:15 AM


when are we going to the kit car Jenny :)



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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 07:10 AM


yes, here you go, a pic of the Subaru item next to the alloy one

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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 07:13 AM


and another

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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 07:19 AM


here's the 'before' shot

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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 07:22 AM


and 'after'

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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 07:26 AM


you need to shorten the oil pick-up tube. i also had tho attack the bracket with the grinder to clearance the suchion head. I guess the pick-up is that short now you could probably take the bracket off all together...

and recalibrate you oil dip stick by filling it with 3.25 litres of oil and marking the lower mark then filling it to 4.25 litres and marking the high mark.

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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 03:18 PM


Hi Jenny,
Can u tell me what capacity the new sump is, the standard one takes 5 litres of oil up to the brim, any idea what the new alloy one takes?
regards
Jak
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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 06:05 PM


Great pics Jenny! :tu:

Rich




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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 06:05 PM
oilsump Bug @ 5-Speed


Hi Jenny,

thanks for the pictures here. Now it seems, that you have to shorten the exhaust headers to get more ground clearance. What kind of car is this? Is it a Buggy, or a very flat sportscar-kit?
You will see, that besides the optic improvement the sump will give your engine much better cooling properties.

Hi Jak,

the capacity of oil-fillment is 4.25 litres (as Jenny mentioned above). Capacity of the original sump might be 5 liters, but only 4.5 litres are filled in. If you fill in more, then the oil might swash up in well driven curves. So it really makes no big sense to fill in 5 litres.

Most shortened sumps only have a capacity of between 3.5 and less than 4 litres. And they will not cool down the oil as well as my sump does.

Cheers Martin
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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 06:19 PM


I put 5 litres in mine when I change the filter as well, but yes it normally only takes 4.55 litres. I'd really like to get one but I'm a little concerned about the capacity, with my car doing track time as well, I would like a little more oil in it. The wrx boys that put their cars on the track all go for 6-8 litre sumps to prevent oil starvation.
Have u thought of making one with even more capacity?
I understand the constraints that u have with making it shorter as well as bigger.
regards
Jak
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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 06:54 PM


Thats true Jako:thumb.... Most of you are shortening your sumps but not putting the compacity or volume of oil back in.Running 3.5l of oil is not a save way to go:o.My sump holds 6L...then a extra 3L for a SETRAD OIL COOLER....Think about a Yacht(boat)with the wing set up...thats how mine is set up.JVLRacing
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posted on October 6th, 2005 at 08:02 PM


I could myke a further partition wall at an angle of 90 degrees between the two others, but I think thatīs not necessary. Because the oil is swashing to the back of the car and thatīs where the inlet of the oil tube is near to. That means the faster you accelerate, the more oil is there, where it should be.
My colleagueīs Turbo 1303 is driven very hard, but there is no problem at all.
The temperature of the engine with 4,25 liters and the aluminium cast oilsump is very very good, even if itīs hot and you are driving the car very hard. I donīt see the necessity to carry another 2-3 litres extra.
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 06:04 AM


But what do u consider very hard? I consider very hard, 15 minutes of flat out track driving with the rev range between 3000-7000rpm & constantly on boost. I would have thought that driving on the freeway flat out & driving on the track flat out with curves & braking & accellerating forces thrown inwould be 2 different types of hard driving?
Have u had any of these sumps on the track or are they aimed primarily at hot Street cars.?
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Jak
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 06:49 AM


Martin, the kit car is a Eureka, based on the Eurepean Nova, and yes modifying something tends to have a ripple effect but the exhaust was a 'free' bonus that came with my O2 sensor and is yet to be modified.
Jak, here is a pic of the re-calibrated dipstick.
I shortened the oil pickup tube about 44mm (1 3/4"). On the original setup it sat about 10mm off the bottom and now it sits 5mm off the bottom. I didn't measure the capacity of the new sump so I can't tell you the maximum it can hold, but I'm guessing you could probably add a bit more than 4.25L.

[ Edited on 6-10-2005 by Jenny ]

[ Edited on 6-10-2005 by Jenny ]

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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 07:26 AM


Boys,think outside the square!!! oil must be kept cool...more oil the better.A subie sump runs 5Lapprox.How much oil is getting sucked up while driving ,lubing the moving parts!!!! what happens when the oil pickup tube is starving to pickup any extra oil?This is why the subie sump is designed to hold the right compacity......JVLRacing..............Jenny love the car!
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 08:07 AM


Any Pics of the inside of the sump?
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 11:22 AM


ref this web site http://www.jimclarkeracing.co.uk/scooby/pre-my97/GeneralInfo.pdf 
The Imprezza Workshop Manual for the pre MY97 models specifies the following engine oil capacities:
Non-turbo: upper = 4.0 L; lower = 3.0L
turbo: upper = 4.5L; lower = 3.5L

this site http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/1990_Legacy_Ow...
specifies 4.5L max
while the previous page http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8080/subaru_manual_scans/1990_Legacy_Ow...
specifies 1L between the F & L marks, so 3.5L min

So I don't think the capacity is an issue for normal use if you keep the level topped up it will still be well above the minimum 3.5L level, but I can't really comment about the suitability for a turbo motor being driven under race conditions.

[ Edited on 7-10-2005 by Jenny ]
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 04:53 PM


2 hours on the Nürburgring at top speed is what I understand of hard driving. And there you do not only drive straight forward, but also high speed in long curves.
AMR in the UK is using the sumps for track racing. The oil tube is normally very far to the front of the original oilsump, as the Subaru sump is angular in the front. By shortening it for my sump itīs coming back very far to the back of the sump. That means, there is really no chance, that it will get out of oil. If that happens you have the oil up in the housing and the crankshaft would mix it up likea mixer.
Be aware: my products only get into the market, when they are well tested!!!l
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posted on October 7th, 2005 at 05:01 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bugat5speed
2 hours on the Nürburgring at top speed is what I understand of hard driving. And there you do not only drive straight forward, but also high speed in long curves.
AMR in the UK is using the sumps for track racing. The oil tube is normally very far to the front of the original oilsump, as the Subaru sump is angular in the front. By shortening it for my sump itīs coming back very far to the back of the sump. That means, there is really no chance, that it will get out of oil. If that happens you have the oil up in the housing and the crankshaft would mix it up likea mixer.
Be aware: my products only get into the market, when they are well tested!!!l
JVLRacing:thumb
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posted on October 19th, 2005 at 08:22 PM


Got my sump today from Ratbug (aka Andrew).

I can see the work involved in these but am a little disappointed in the casting quality. Hopefully this improves with time. Just as well my car is low so people won't be getting underneath looking for detail. Will help alot just the same.

Apologies if I sound harsh, just doesn't look as good in person, probably like my car :o




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