| [ Total Views: 2126 | Total Replies: 30 | Thread Id: 68530 ] |
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 NuZo
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 posted on April 13th, 2008 at 12:16 AM |
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Whiteline - Sways -any good?
as the title states, are these whiteline sway bars any good for our beetles... i kno their awsome for other brand cars like honda etc, but has any one
got one?
http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/products.htm
also.. are they good for the price?
The link above is for a 1969 1500cc Beetle....also.... im guessing there is no way to add a strut brace to a 1969 beetle becsaue the suspension is not
connected to the chassie.. or is there some mysterious way!!!
Cheers all, NuZo
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 13th, 2008 at 07:49 AM |
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Most/all the Hill Climb boys have the adjustable Whitelines - it was for track cars that the bars were designed for. Great for track, possibly
'overkill' for the street
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Sides
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| posted on April 13th, 2008 at 08:52 AM |
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I've run both types on Jezebel, and definitely recommend them. She's a 70 1500 with BJ front end and IRS, setup mainly for hillclimb but also
road-reg for testing and the odd tarmac rally.
The "street" bars turned the car into a go-kart on the road - over/understeer was very neutral, but nice and firm with body roll (as in there was
next to zero). I wouldn't call them overkill - car handled like it was on rails most of the time, but I could feel it was tyres that was the limiting
factor rather than suspension. And this was with "reasonable" street tyres - 195/60R15 and 215/55R15 Yoko AVS-E100's.
After about 6 months I changed to the adjustable race bars, as I wasn't getting the turn-in I'd like when the track tyres were on. That made a huge
difference to things, even less body roll and I can now adjust my turn-in - currently have the car set for very mild controllable oversteer. Based on
a couple of events where I had to use the street bar on the front and race bar on the rear, I'd say the street bars are about the same as the
adjustable bars on 4/12 setting.
Bang for buck wise depends on what you pay - can't remember what the street bars cost but the race bars were in the mid 200's each - no way do I
regret spending the money.
I haven't tried doing anything about bracing up front - don't think I need to, since the front beam is pretty stiff as it is (much stiffer than
panel metal at least like with a strut car).
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 13th, 2008 at 09:30 AM |
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best thing you can do to your suspension..................track or daily!
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colin
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| posted on April 13th, 2008 at 09:33 AM |
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My car is a irs rear strut, front hillclimber.I run a Whiteline adjustable rear bar and found it to be excellent for dialing in yuor personal driving
style.As far as the front is concerned a home made strut brace and a few tricks gets the front wheels where i want them.But remember a good wheel
alignment front and rear and a bit of trial and error are a must when playing with your toys handling.
Cheers Col
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Joel
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| posted on April 13th, 2008 at 11:48 AM |
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ill also 2nd whiteline swaybars as money well spent for street bugs
a rear swaybar is a worth while investment for a bug especially for a swinger like urs given their tendencies when pushed in corners
theres not much u can do to stiffen up BJ front ends
but u dont really need to
its more the body that shows up weaknesses
ive built a home made strut tower brace for my bug but being a superbug its strut front end
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NuZo
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| posted on April 15th, 2008 at 02:41 PM |
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awsome .... so rear sway bar is best bang for buck, and front sway is a nice follow up...
also ... are they easy to install ? or should a mechanic do it?
ps... i dunno what suspension setup my bug has, all i kno is theres no spings at the front, and their not connected to the chassies like superbugs,
and two, the rear i think is torsinbar?
i have no idea! rofl
Cheers all...NuZo
P.S.S....the "Race" model sway bars are only like $30 extra... would it be worth getting them as they are adjustable? or would just getting normal
heavy duty bars be good enof?
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NuZo
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| posted on April 17th, 2008 at 08:53 PM |
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bump!!!
The Blade Adjustable and Blade Adjustable "RACE" bars are the exact same price? would it be better to get the "RACE" ones? their both $250? or
will it be better to just get a heavy duty Rear bar and just leave it at that? need to kno as im getting one pretty soon!
P.S. what is it that makes an "adjustable" sway bar... is it the fact that it has more then one point to bolt it on to? or is there actualy a
tensioner or something in it?
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 17th, 2008 at 11:04 PM |
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if your keen to tune it to your style by using the adjustment, yes go the adjustable ones............better resale value too.
if you like the idea of just strapping it on and leaving it then go the standard one.......and yes you will be very impressed with the results. the
adjustablility would only be utilised when dialling in for different tracks anyways and if your just going street, the normal bars are set for best
compromise anyways.
up to you. maybe not bother if your sticking to standard width tyres etc as above pics. i havent checked the specs to see if the race ones are bigger
diameter, if so just stick to standard for your street driving
yes adjustability is thru different mounting holes. search my last few posts and you will find a pic or two
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NuZo
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| posted on April 17th, 2008 at 11:39 PM |
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cheers for the reply!
im curious what is stock beetle swaybar size?
as the "race" adjustable ones are 27mm thick and the "heavy duty" ones are only 18mm.. im not too smart on this but i kno thats a pretty massive
difference when it comes to rear sways...thats like a 400% difference when it comes to stiffness of the steering... and thats not including stock
sways..
im only askign these questions casue i want to kno for sure before i spend the money... so sorry if i seam a bit arrogent, im really not trying to
be..
P.S. the Heavy Duty bars are $220 and overall price comes to about $270 with shipping etc! so its deffinetly cheaper then the "race" ones as their
300 - 310 total..
Any idea how long it takes them to ship it out to you? or any idea how long it takes if they dont have them stocked?
is it best to get from whiteline site and order it, or find a shop to buy it from?
Cheers all, uv been an awsome help!
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 12:00 AM |
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qestions are cool, that's what a forum is for!
one is 18mm
there is one there at 24mm-adjustable.
stay away from the 27mm unless you intend to race.
your beetle semi auto?
http://www.whiteline.com.au/
if your just after safety improvement and intend keeping your car (as above) on the skinnies, soft ride and driving daily stick to the 18mm
this the page yor working from?>.........
Loc Key Description Part No. # Note
VW - Beetle Type 1 68-76 1.5l, 1.6l
F Swaybar-h/duty Blade adjustable. 15-1600 & beam front BWF8Z OE conversion
F Swaybar-heavy duty. 15-1600 & beam front BWF21
F Swaybar-heavy duty. 15-1600 & beam front BWF8 OE conversion
F Swaybar-X h/duty Blade adjustable - RACE BWF8XZ
R Swaybar-h/duty Blade adjustable BWR1Z
R Swaybar-heavy duty. with stick-shift auto BWR1 OE conversion
R Swaybar-heavy duty BWR2
R Swaybar-X h/duty Blade adjustable - RACE BWR1XZ
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 12:14 AM |
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not much idea how long it would take, i'm lucky enough to just grab them from a big pile up here at my old mate house ...........the old mate that did all the set up work with
whiteline/selby many moons ago.
some of his writings here.....
http://www.clubvw.org.au/some_articles_of_interest_writte.htm
they do get back logged, but if in stock, freight would normally get most things around our beautiful country within the week.
your bug is IRS rear suspension tho hey? make sure of your suspension type before you order anything (not sure on your knowledge here)
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NuZo
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 12:46 AM |
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i have no idea on my rear susp setup is.
and as for the sways, i dont just want a nice ride, i want it to corner well and hold it. i want it to be like a gokart!.. im pretty sure iv got a
rear torsion bar? not sure if its IRS or SA?
also, where would i find some lower shocks and a nice beetle freindly camber/castor?
as i would like to have it lower esp the front end, and have camber/castor on the back wheels to make it handel better. i want to make the car kind of
stockish, just lower and nice cornering upgrades. as for the engine, that comes much, much later.
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 08:21 AM |
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does it have CV joints and diagonal trailing arms like the one in this thread
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=68590&page=1#pid641254
....i'm thinking it will, but just confirm that.
and sounds like you have a sway bar that runs up through the body above the suspension?
did you read the "handle with care" article i linked in my previous post?
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Sides
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 08:30 AM |
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Like dumone says, you need to figure out what your rear suspension is. You DEFINITELY have a torsion bar rear - all beetles do unless they've been
seriously modified. To tell IRS from SwingAxle, take a look at this pic :
http://www.customspeedparts.de/images/technic/schraeg_pendel.gif
On the left is SwingAxle, on the right is IRS. If you stick your head underneath the rear corner of the car you should be able to tell which you've
got. A '69 1500 is most likely SwingAxle, unless its German or has/had a semi-automatic gearbox. Definitely double check - there's a long story on
why, so just take my word for it.
Also agree with what dumone says about tyres etc. - going up to reasonable rims and tyres will make a FAR bigger difference to your handling than a
swaybar will. There's a ton of info around on making a beetle, starting with http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/handling.htm, but the basic order will usually be something like:
- wheels + tyres (aim at around 185-195'ish)
- shocks - heavy duty oil, or ideally gas
- front beam adjusters and lower it (this is a rather large job, probably best to get a VW specialist)
- reset rear height to be level with front (also a rather large job, but you can DIY)
On where to get parts - shocks and so-on you can order in through most suspension places, Repco etc.... but the VW specific stuff like beam adjusters
you really need to talk to some of the Volksy specialsists.
Who that is depends on where you're at - your profile doesn't say, although that looks like a QLD rego sticker ???
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Sides
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 08:32 AM |
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Doh - you beat me to it Daimo !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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Old Hutcho
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 11:13 AM |
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I have 18mm Whiteline swaybars on the back of my swing axle 1970 bug. It is lowered slightly. I use 6.5 inch x 15 inch wheels all round and it
handles like a go kart. Its pretty much stock apart from those mods.
Keep it simple. See what Whiteline make the bars for (race, street etc) and go with their advice. They know what they make and they do it well.
Couldnt be happier with mine on the road. No pesky settings to worry about. I live with what I got and I can stay pretty much with everything on the
road.
regards
Old Hutcho
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 12:39 PM |
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I use whiteline bars, I'm happy !
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 matberry
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 01:00 PM |
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vw shocks from Repco !!!
Sway bar over the suspension, through the body !!!
Oh dear, we are gonna need to teach a few things.
I'll keep my trap shut.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Sides
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 01:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
Oh dear, we are gonna need to teach a few things.
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C'mon Matt - educate us all then please !!! I'm all for learning more about how and why (or how not and why not) to do things...
I'm running KYB GR2's which I ordered in through Repco (better price than anywhere else). I'm reasonably happy with them, but sure - there may be
some Koni's in my future.
(oh, and I assumed Daimo's comment about a swaybar going through the body was for the Z bar that you have on 1500 swinger's as standard... )
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555bug
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 02:08 PM |
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can someone organise a group buy for some swaybars...what sort of deal could be done?
I want race bars front and back (adjustable blades)
Stephen
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Joel
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 03:42 PM |
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nuz ur bug would be a swinger
the only 1500s that were IRS were automatic beetles
id personally go a front swaybar first and see how u like it
only then if its still got to much roll for ur liking jam a rear bar on to
u dont want to make ur rear stiffer than the front
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hellbugged
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 04:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
vw shocks from Repco !!!
Sway bar over the suspension, through the body !!!
Oh dear, we are gonna need to teach a few things.
I'll keep my trap shut.
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sorry boss, trying to keep it simple, should we call it a Z bar and add to the confusion
torsion, sway, z, anti roll, public, private............all bars 
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 04:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 555bug
can someone organise a group buy for some swaybars...what sort of deal could be done?
I want race bars front and back (adjustable blades)
Stephen
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Do Whiteline make them?? i do get good prices on all this sort of stuff but to get a better price you need to order like 5 plus of the same item at
least. the discount is minimual but most of the time you get free freight.
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matberry
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 05:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dumone
torsion, sway, z, anti roll, public, private............all bars
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I'll drink to that !
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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NuZo
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| posted on April 18th, 2008 at 09:41 PM |
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its a 1969 1500 manual! stock from factory, i cant take a look at the suspension at the back cause its dark out.. but u guys would kno more then
me!!
also the tyres will most likely be upgraded!!
sounds like the 18mm is what im after as its just a simple bolt on? and isnt a rear swaybar a better upgrade then a front swaybar?
as for shocks etc these will be done, but not just yet! these will be done at a later date...
im from Inner-West Sydney NSW, not QLD. with nsw rego too rofl...
Thank you all for all ur help!!! And sorry for being such a beetle noob!!! i kno heaps about hondas ...nohting about beetles!!! even tho iv had it
almost all my life :S
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fullnoise
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| posted on April 20th, 2008 at 03:01 PM |
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Good tyres, wheels & suspension maintenance first.
Hi,
First I'd get some good shocks, replace the suspension bushes and get a 4 wheel alignment. If it doesn't align properly rectify the problem. Then
see how the car is.
Secondly I'd get some 5.5 or 6.0 wide rims and put some new good brand low profile tyres on like 195/60R15s. Then see how the car is.
Then I'd lower the rear with some type 3 springs and welded drop-spindles. Then drive the car for a while.
I'd play with the alignment settings and rear ride height to get the car handling how you like it.
Then, if you can't get the car how you want go for swaybars.
My 2 cents.
CYA CT
esratrams
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colin
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| posted on April 20th, 2008 at 03:26 PM |
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Totaly agree with CT one thing at a time dont rush.
Cheers Col
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NuZo
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| posted on April 20th, 2008 at 09:57 PM |
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mm true ... im looking into shocks and such now... will post back when iv thought about a conclusion.
Cheers All.
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| posted on April 21st, 2008 at 07:55 PM |
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Anybody had any trouble fitting the whiteline bars to the front of balljoint beetle? the lower shock absober bolts/mount on my trailing arms have
barely enough thread left to enable me to put the nut on after the angled bracket goes on.
Any ideas? I have read about similar problems on other forums but no solutions or explanations.
The bolt/mount on my trailing arms is about 45mm long, shock absorber eyelet is 32mm long, add the bracket & lock washer & the bolt doesnt
reach entirely through the nut.
Cheers
Brendan
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