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 colonel mustard
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| posted on March 14th, 2009 at 03:23 PM |
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Help Me Plan My 1916 engine!
Hey Guys.
There has been alot of 1916 / carb talk on the forum this week, And as these are things that Im currently researching and planning, I'd really love
your opinion on this.
So, I will be building an engine late this year/early next year (2010) and the budget is quite limited but id love to know what specs I would get a
decent decent performance out of. The aim is to be daily driven, but with a fair bit of punch. I'm really not interested in it be stupidly powerful,
but id like to get the most out of the setup 
I am being serious here, and I'm not interersted in fuel injection or turbo's (as cool as that is). I want it to be simple, and drivable.
What i have so far:
- 8 dowel lightened flywheel
- German 69mm Crank
- 69mm Rods
- Swivel foot rockers (standard - 1:1 [is that correct..?])
- standard clutch kit to mate to the L-bug IRS gearbox.
- Single glass pack extractors
I want to keep the standard Fuel setup if I can, Im not really up for electronic fuel pumps.
I'd love some suggestions in this form, roughly:
- heads
- cam
- Intake
- P/B
- Distributer
- what ever else I've missed!!
I'm also looking for links, so if you suggest something, a link would be awesome also!!!
Cheers
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cnfabo
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| posted on March 14th, 2009 at 07:03 PM |
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i think maybe get your stock 040 heads port and polished, engle 110 cam, dell or webber 40's or kads with match ported manfolds, quite pack muffler,
94 mahle p&b's,and maybe that compufire 60 000 volt system. will be a nice daily with some torque and wont brake the bank. thats my 2 cents.
keep saving, but dont rush it, if you think that it might take a few extra months saving to build it that much better, do it.
good luck mr mustard, ha......
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 Bizarre
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 12:31 PM |
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what is the cut on your crank??
How many times has it been ground
If it is much more than 20 thou under i would consider replacing it
Same with your case
Has it been line bored??
Has the thrust bearing been cut??
These are the backbones that need to be sound to start with
If it is a true daily consider running a stock 34 Pict for reliability and ease
Otherwise what Chis said above is as good a "base" 1916 as you can get
With your muffler if you have a fulkly merged header in a 4 3 2 1 firing order it is heaps better than the standard 4 2 3 1 extractor set up
Have a look at what you have - it will make sense when you see it
Futue te ipsum!!!
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 01:03 PM |
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I will be getting a new case. And no, i dont know what type that will be.
Im not sure how many times the crank has been ground either. probably some things i should find out hey.
I hate 34PICT, no offence. but i really cant stand it. I was going down the kadron track, but after what every body said in a thread a few days ago,
I'm definatly concidering dellortos.
I will have a look at the headers. Its not nully merged, it has j pipes. its similar to this http://www.classicveedub.com.au/images/SpareParts/muffler_exhaust/3310.jpg
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 01:22 PM |
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ok - anti clock wise from top left no 3
3 - 1 - 4 - 2
You dont get a true scavenge swirl
have a lok here
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1622
trace it out
I 4 3 2
same as your firing order
For the same money you get more bang for your buck
Down side is it sticks a bit further out the back
If you want HP then looks need to go away
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 01:27 PM |
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also look hear for various engine combos
http://www.geocities.com/enginecookbook/menu.htm
and read here
http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm
and LOTS here
http://www.cal-look.com/tech_home.shtml
Futue te ipsum!!!
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 09:19 PM |
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Cheers Dude!
I have a few questions, Does anyone know what sort of rev's a standard German crank will hold up to? Also, does anyone have experiance with swivel
foot rockers??
My exhaust pattern isnt like that sadly, but for me looks>>>>(over) performance, to a certain extent. especially externally. I have a
similar exhaust on my 1600 currently, and i HATE that it sticks out. Im happy with the exhaust iv got for the new engine, it just needs a bit of
sanding and painting, and it will be wicked.
Im mainly concerned now at what im really getting out of stock parts in a performance motor. the guy who is building it generally uses stock parts in
the engines he builds. what do you think?
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Joel
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 09:55 PM |
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with a non c/w crank if ur revin it over 5k all the time you will soon pound out the bearing seats
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 15th, 2009 at 10:29 PM |
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What about standard rods Joel? Will they deal with plus 5k revs? Im not sure that i will generally rev past that... Its not a rotary... haha! I don't
shift at 9500rpm all the time!
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RodPenrose
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 06:46 AM |
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Colonel , Here are the spec's on an engine I have just sold to Tricky Simon .
Used as 41 case line bored .020
cro-moly counterweighted crank .010 mains , .020 rods
new 5.4'' I beam cro-moly conrods
engle 100 cam and bevel gear
scat lifters
AA 94mm piston kit
New 043 heads 40 x 35.5 stainless valves , single springs and 54cc chambers , cleaned up and not ported
std pushrods
solid shimmed rockers with swivel feet adj.
26mm oil pump
std weight 8 dowelled flywheel
new bearing kit
This engine was all new except for the case that I was using in my personal car and after 8,000 km's was totally rebuilt with different heads . This
engine has 8.3 comp. and runs Kadron carbs and is to be used on std unleaded fuel . This is not an engine that will see more than 5000 rpm , however
is built to do 80,000 + km's . The total cost on this engine sealed from front pulley to flywheel and valve cover to valve cover was $ 3000 . This
engine runs and idles like a std engine , has the power to overtake at 100 km/h , and has enough torque to climb hills without changing gears on a
freeway . Good luck with your engine and remember to built what you need and not what you think you need , ROD.
More boost + More fuel = More power
1968 Beetle fastest run 8.96 sec @ 161 mph 4th Nov. 2001
2010 New Beetle 8.12 sec on 8th march 2014
http://www.rodpenroseracing.com.au
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trickysimon
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 07:02 AM |
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So is the compression 7.9 or 8.3 Rod? 
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 09:41 AM |
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OK.... this gives me some good idea's
-8 dowel lightened flywheel
- German 69mm Crank (balanced and machined for 8 dowel)
- 69mm Rods
- Swivel foot rockers (standard - 1:1 [is that correct..?])
- standard clutch kit to mate to the L-bug IRS gearbox.
- Single glass pack extractors
- 94mm heads - 40mm x 35.5mm valves
- engle 110 cam (not sure what exact grind)
- 94mm piston kit
- Bosch 009 with electronic (compufire)
- DRLA Dellorto's (not sure what size...) or maybe Kadrons still (going to try and get out of that today)
- Oil pump... No idea
- Lifters.... No idea
- Push rods.... No idea
- would DRLA 40's be big enough?
- Rod,
What brand are the heads that you used on that engine? also,
This might be a dumb question, but what is the difference between a AA and B piston kit? And what brand of pistons are most commonly used/or what are
the best - life wise?
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hellbugged
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 10:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
OK.... this gives me some good idea's
-8 dowel lightened flywheel
- German 69mm Crank (balanced and machined for 8 dowel)
- 69mm Rods
- Swivel foot rockers (standard - 1:1 [is that correct..?])
- standard clutch kit to mate to the L-bug IRS gearbox.
- Single glass pack extractors
- 94mm heads - 40mm x 35.5mm valves
- engle 110 cam (not sure what exact grind)
- 94mm piston kit
- Bosch 009 with electronic (compufire)
- DRLA Dellorto's (not sure what size...) or maybe Kadrons still (going to try and get out of that today)
- Oil pump... No idea
- Lifters.... No idea
- Push rods.... No idea
- would DRLA 40's be big enough?
- Rod,
What brand are the heads that you used on that engine? also,
This might be a dumb question, but what is the difference between a AA and B piston kit? And what brand of pistons are most commonly used/or what are
the best - life wise?
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rods woill be a bit longer than 69mm .......but yes standard do the
job up to 76mm stroke
Rod would have all those parts you need at excellent $$$
rockers would be 1.1/1
you need new lifters of good quality with new cams
oil pump will be good with 26mm providing plenty
you only need standard pushrods
engle 100 would work well if you are not porting the heads and sticking to the kaddies...........up to 5000 rpm
might make use of 110 with dells and cleaning the heads up a tad
40mm dells would be plenty (venturis will need attention and jets from there of which there are plenty available) kads would work
A and B piston relates to pin height in the piston with B type being for stroker cranks........mahle brand work fine
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Joel
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 04:53 PM |
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stock rods balanced are almost bullet proof
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 05:10 PM |
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Piston and Cylinder Set 94MM X 69 Stroke FORGED.
CB 044 Heads 40x35.5 valves 94 bore
ENGLE Hi-performance Cam W110
HIGH PERFORMANCE PUSH RODS Made from the highest quality heat-treated 5/16" tubing. Fits 1300-1600cc.
STAINLESS STEEL PUSH ROD TUBES 40hp 1600cc
Valve Covers
just some ideas there.......
Do any vw shops do engine kits??
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 07:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
with a non c/w crank if ur revin it over 5k all the time you will soon pound out the bearing seats
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Not true, if its all balanced and the machining is done properly they will rev to 6200 all day long for years.
And yes stock rods are bullet proof !
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Joel
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 07:45 PM |
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yeh its the ones that arent balanced tho iwas refering to
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colonel mustard
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 07:52 PM |
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But then a counterwighted crank is better than a standard balanced crank.... But is it worth it for the price???
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 08:11 PM |
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depends on your budget and combo !
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hellbugged
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 08:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
But then a counterwighted crank is better than a standard balanced crank.... But is it worth it for the price???
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NO........ but YES 
start thinking of your engine as a combination of ALL it's components.........and exactly what you want to do with it
eg.......
no point having cam that runs in the 5500- 8000rpm range if you have non ported standard valve sized heads and a non counter-weighted
crank...........
BUT a non counter weighted crank with a nice gentle cam designed for tourque 1200-4900 rpm would work great with the exact same heads
there are things you wont need and things that once you add one "design up grade", you will need several more to get the best performance AND ALSO
just as importantly ENGINE LIFE
make sense?
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matberry
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 09:45 PM |
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One thing, definately dont use those stainless pushrod tubes, I fitted em to an offroader thinking I would save the effort of painting and should last
forever on the beach...they actually are too tough or too long or both and hold the heads from exerting the correct clamp force on the barrel.
Lots of good advice above. So no need for me to repeat.
Nothing wrong with stock rods, I reved them to 9000rpm in the chop top engine in the 90's, but always had sets that were definately German and never
previously resized.
Kadrons are ok but I'd prefer Webers personally.
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OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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pat Malone
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| posted on March 16th, 2009 at 09:54 PM |
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A counterweighted crank adds torque right through the rev range................... if its made correctly
from idle all the way as far as the cam/heads combo will take it
ie not just crappy flame cut counterweights welded on down the back of the shop
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 17th, 2009 at 06:44 AM |
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Another point
A lightened flywheel will rev up faster but will loose momentum quicker
Futue te ipsum!!!
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whatnow
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| posted on April 6th, 2009 at 08:18 PM |
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i'm no expert but i think that with 42mm intake valves you will want 44 webers/45 dellortos
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 6th, 2009 at 08:19 PM |
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Interesting. I will research that. thanks
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colin
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| posted on April 6th, 2009 at 09:01 PM |
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Pretty much backup what Daimo said,
Its not the parts that count but more the combo and how they work together.
Seek plenty of advice from people liike Rod Penrose.
Cheers Col
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 6th, 2009 at 09:14 PM |
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Rod seems to be the man..
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colonel mustard
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 09:58 AM |
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What do you think of this combo (anyone - rod in particular)
case???
cro-moly counterweighted crank .010 mains , .020 rods
new 5.4'' I beam cro-moly conrods
engle 110 cam and bevel gear
scat lifters
AA 94mm piston kit
New 044 heads w/ stainless valves , single springs and 54cc chambers
Aluminium pushrods
Windage push rod tubes
roller rockers
26mm oil pump
lightened 8 dowelled flywheel
40 DRLA's - dellorto's (CB performance manifold/linkage kit)
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psimitar
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 04:25 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by colonel mustard
But then a counterwighted crank is better than a standard balanced crank.... But is it worth it for the price???
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and you'd still have to get the c/w crank balanced and the c/w helps stop the crank from twisting, which at high rev will break the crank and there
goes your engine. if you were going to scrot the poor thing everyday then I'd say yes but then the stock case becomes the weak point and you have to
go with a wasserboxer.
get the case shuffle pinned and this will help stop the case moving at high revs. Otherwise a balanced crank, rods and pistons. This should all be
matched so that the weight of the crank, rod and piston on each journal is within a gram of each other. if you assemble any rod to any piston then you
can end up with one set weighing more than the others then it should.
port the heads, you could do a reasonable job yourself, and 3 angle the vlave seats plus back cut the valves. This will help maximise flow for the
lift your cam gives. Also, match port the inlet manifold to the heads and carbs.
The kads will give you a nice smooth drive and be more fuel efficient than the dells or webers but either would work.
The 110 will work well with the head mods. Use scat lifters, the ones with the small oil hole in the contact pad. helps cam lobe lubrication.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
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trickysimon
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| posted on April 8th, 2009 at 06:41 PM |
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I don't know why ure so obsessed with coming up with all these combos even though you said you wont be doing it for ages.. 
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