| [ Total Views: 3546 | Total Replies: 22 | Thread Id: 77476 ] |
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 Blue65
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 02:05 AM |
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Fuel Line ruptured in chassis tunnel
I got a serious problem now - I've located the source of the petrol stench - and its coming from inside the chassis tunnel of my VW Beetle.
Is there a good site which explains how to replace the metal fuel line?
Any tips from those who have done it?
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 08:37 AM |
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it's a bugger of a job as the line is steel and fixed to mounts inside the pan.
The quick and easy way is to run a rubber fuel line down the inside of your car (not the tunnel), tuck it in nice and neat next to the seat rail and
under the carpet/rubber. 'Mirror' the location of the brake line... (which you may also like to check!) You may need to drill a couple of holes to
in the bulkheads. Use grommets.
Pay your debts, CxxT
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vwsteve
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 09:38 AM |
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.
Yuk, prik of a job to fix
1 1963 356b porsche coupe
2 1960 karmann ghia cab
1 1965 karmann ghia cab
1 1966 karmann cab
1 1961 split ute
1 1967 split p/van
1 1952 standard bug
1 1963 ragtop
1 1960 ragtop
2 1954 ovals
1 1956 oval baja project
1 1957 oval flying flea
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shaihulud
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 12:06 PM |
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Be careful about running a simple rubber fuel hose inside the car where the people are. Basically that's illegal because of the potential danger from
a ruptured line.
You may be ably to run a hose there if it is reiforced on the outside of the hose with a steel mesh, or if you fit a steel guard of folded sheet metal
over it.
You may be able to fit a steel pipe there on the otherside of the tunnel from the brake pipe, with a guard over it.
A steel mesh reiforced hose, that is unsupported, inside the tunnel may be OK.
As I understand the ADRs, fuel lines must be supported every 30mm.
Maybe you could fit a steel pipe inside a steel guard under the car alongside the tunnel.
You have a problem. I suggest that you talk to an engineer and see what is acceptable, or go to your local registration office, where the engineers
are, not just where the inspectors are, and get their advice.
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Mick058
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 01:09 PM |
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Aren't you allowed to run a fuel line through the tunnel? Is this because of the mounting rules?
I ask because i use to have mine run through the tunnel - it was an efi rubber fuel hose.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 01:29 PM |
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I think people just run some of that small black gardening watering tube that you buy at bunnings down the tunnel and than run their Rubber fuel hose
inside of it. So it doesnt rub on any thing.
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BiX
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 01:35 PM |
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I jsut mounted a high pressure steel tube down the side of the tunnel. You can get it in one piece (no joins inside cab). then secured it every 200mm
along tunnel side.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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Blue65
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 02:40 PM |
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I guess the use of a hoist would be fracking fantastic. I think I'll settle for a steel hose and mount it on the outside sector of tunnel.
Putting it thru the tunnel is difficult cos there's a bulkhead or two blocking the way yeah?
Speedy Jim provided me with a useful diagram.
CLICK HERE Beetle Tunnel Interior
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ian.mezz
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 03:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
I guess the use of a hoist would be fracking fantastic. I think I'll settle for a steel hose and mount it on the outside sector of tunnel.
Putting it thru the tunnel is difficult cos there's a bulkhead or two blocking the way yeah?
Speedy Jim provided me with a useful diagram.
Beetle Tunnel Interior
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you take the cover off the front bulkhead.
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 Yogie
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 03:40 PM |
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From what I understand, it is illegal to run ANY fuel hose on the inside of the car. In the tunnel is OK as it is not inside the car. I would be
checking with an engineer to be sure just in case.
Yogie
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Blue65
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 03:46 PM |
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If you are going to have the fuel line inside the tunnel - how are you going to re-attach the new fuel line to the internal brace - which is next to
the pedal assembly?
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Joel
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 04:46 PM |
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you can cut inspection holes in the tunnel then weld them back shut once its in or just cut 3 sides of square and bend the tab out
i had to run extra fuel lines in my bug
a few years back for my old blow through turbo i needed a return line to the tank
i just ran an 8mm rubber hose down the tunnel as the new supply and the original as the return
wasnt secured anywhere just had grommets where it passed the the chassis
ive done what Ian mentioned with my new lines
2x 8mm rubbers down the tunnel inside some 32mm reinforced suction hose
im hoping that will keep the engineers happy
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BlueV2
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 05:29 PM |
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I ran 2 x 8mm fuel lines down the outside of the tunnel and then covered them with alloy chanel that you buy from bunnings. Just made a few alloy
brackets up to securely hold it to the tunnel.
Sharpbuilt V2, EJ25, Subaru 5 Speed, Falcon rear discs, Heater & A/C, Rack Steering
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Blue65
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 11:45 PM |
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Why two and not just one or one big one? Pardon my ignorance.
And was it certified as road worthy?
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pod
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| posted on June 29th, 2009 at 11:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
Why two and not just one or one big one? Pardon my ignorance.
And was it certified as road worthy?
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he is running a subi motor
his buggy is engineered and regoed in nsw
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Blue65
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| posted on July 9th, 2009 at 04:52 PM |
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My mechanic is fitting the steel fuel line underneath the chassis of the car. I think that's the best and cheapest solution at the moment.
Ideally of course we fit it inside the chassis tunnel and pull out the old one but that would involve more work.
One day when I finally get the cash to do a full resoration of the Beetle - I'll pull off the body and put the fuel line through the chassis tunnel.
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oval TOFU
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| posted on July 9th, 2009 at 11:13 PM |
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Hey Blue
I had the same problem. I let my oval sit for a year before I built up the courage to tackle it. I ended up threading a long guide wire through the
existing fuel line, pulled out the fuel line (t'was a biach, but a pair of multi-grips and a hammer and some swearing made me the victor of that
battle) and then inserting the new fuel line over the guide wire (from the front of the tunnel). It was like trying to do wiring behind plaster walls.
Took some time, but in the end, it worked. I used some high-density flexible PVC piping as a grommet for the fuel line as it exits from the left fork
of the gearbox mount..
I've seen instructions somewhere - it tells you some tricks on how to execute the whole thing properly and how long to cut the new fuel line before
you insert it..
um..... good luck!! (when you do your body off)
PS: you might want to add some underbody protection to the fuel line if it's gonna be under there..?
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
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Newt
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| posted on July 9th, 2009 at 11:50 PM |
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The worlds gone quite mad.
I started running two 10mm OSD (bundy tube) pipes inside the tunel last weekend. One to come out of the left fork and one to come out the right fork
(right fork is easy). I bought a length of aprox 4mm steel round to make templates from (ie bent the rear section roughly to shape, slid it in the
tunel to test, pulled it out and modified it etc). I found this very helpful as I wasnt messing around with tube.
There was a decent article in Dune Buggies and Hot VWs last year which some one on the forum was able to help me out with (maxed out floor pan - part
2).
I am curious about fixing the pipes inside the tunnel around the pedal area. I am loath to weld as I dont want to create a weak spot. I ponder using
rubber and stainless steel hose clamps/U bolts to a welded anchor point - and if that would induce the pipe to rust through trapping moisture? Any
Suggestions? I will make a couple of access panels (ie at the front by the pedal assembly and at the back past the hand brake / seat belt
mount).
Also it is my understanding that a hard line inside the passanger compartment is a no no. I know the VW manual says that you can run a second line
down the out side of the tunel, but that was back in the 1960s (if not earlier).
Newt
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Blue65
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| posted on July 11th, 2009 at 02:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by oval TOFU
I ended up threading a long guide wire through the existing fuel line, pulled out the fuel line (t'was a biach, but a pair of multi-grips and a
hammer and some swearing made me the victor of that battle)
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I can imagine your pain. 
Did u do it with the body off?
And did you have the car up in a hoist.
I didn't fancy doing the job myself because my driveway is in an odd step angle and my garage is rather tight - making it very difficult for me to
crawl under the car.
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Blue65
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| posted on July 11th, 2009 at 02:10 AM |
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I found these instructions on the web using google...
http://www.vwdcqinc.org.au/insidea63bug.html
A couple years ago, dune buggy and hot vw magazine wrote a tech article with pics on how to go about replacing the fuel line.
the fuel line is metal from the rear, through the horn arm and into the tunnel. comes out under the fuel tank. metal all the way.
water and dirt, enemies of that metal line. rust forms dirt collects on the rust. more rust, eventually the line plugs.
you might try blowing compressed air through the original line or running a long piece of braided cable, like a speedo cable with a lead slug or brass
tip of some sort to guide the cable around the turns and bends in the line. provided the original metal fuel line is not rusted through and the air or
the cable pushes through, you may be able to use the original fuel line, with maybe a couple fuel filters in series.
the metal fuel line is attached at several different locations inside the tunnel. it will not pull nor push out.
the only way to replace it is to cut openings into the tunnel, cut loose the attachment points and pull in a new metal line using the original as a
pull.
unfortunately with out a factory road map, we do not know where the line is attached to the tunnel.
the article in hot vw showed how to cut open the tunnel, where the attachments are, how to remove the attachments. how to replace the fuel line. where
to reattach to the inside of the tunnel. then how to seal the holes in the tunnel.
think they said it took an expert over 16 hours to do this job. it was suggested that, with this article as a guide a skilled craftsman at home could
do this in their garage. that is as long as paid close attention to the article and followed every direction.
my local shop gets 100 bucks an hour without batting an eye and customers pay it. so, 16 hours, 100 an hour. 1600 bucks.
i need to do the same on my manx dune buggy. the metal line needs to be attached inside the tunnel or it will rub and get cut through. if you don't
replace and just add another metal line, cut access holes in the tunnel, drill a hole in the horn or in the rear of the pan ahead of the front trans
mount.
you can then pass another metal line through the tunnel to the front. you will need to drill a hole in the tunnel under the gas tank for the line to
come through.
best to carefully drain the fuel out of the tank ( disconnect the battery, both cables !!! b4 you attempt to remove the gas tank ) and remove it to
access the area under the fuel tank.
it will be a Pain to run the new line through the tunnel, pushing it along, a friend at the access points guiding it.
no magic, no ez way to do this. it will be difficult and you need to be extremely careful.
if you attempt it, find that article in hot vw.
i do not know exactly how long ago they wrote it. they replaced the line with a larger one for a larger displacement engine they were running.
good luck, and remember take your time and always think safety 1st.
2323
okay, found this on samba.
i have helped replace a fuel line on older vw was years ago. we did it the way i described above.
this person suggests a different way.
First off, ou don't need to cut any holes in your pan. If the body is still on the car you will need to remove the following items to use the
existing access holes. Remove the front bumper and the front access cover in the framehead, remove the pedal assembly, shifter and inspection cover
under the rear seat. Last of all you will need to remove the latge bolt at the rear of the vehicle that secures the trans bracket on the tube that the
fuel line comes out of. This will allow you a hole to look in when running the new line.
Secnod, The fuel line is not welded inside the tunnel, it is held in place by 2 tabs that are bent around the tube. One is located just rear if the
pedal access hole and the other is accessible thru the rear inspection hole and is where the rear frame tube is attached to the pan. You can reach the
rear one with a screw driver to bend it open slightly. The front one is a little harder. I took a 4 ft long piece of 1/4 inch square steel tube, from
Home Depot, and hammered the end flat. I reached through the front access hole and bent the strap open with it. Be patient.
Third. I broke off the existing fuel pipe where it exits the frame in the front and rear and used a screw driver to push the tube into the frame.
Then, I worked the old tube out of the frame through the pedal access hole using a pair of channel locks and pryed against the upening to leverage the
tube out the hole.
Now you have the old fuel line out. If you put a trouble light in the rear access hole facing foreward you can look into the frame from the front
access hole and you will see where to route the new fuel line.
Buy a 25ft roll of 1/4 inch steel fuel line at the auto parts store. Roll it out on the floor and tape the end to keep dirt out of it. Feed it into
the frame through the front opening and don't worry about getting it in the clip until the end. Once it reaches the rear insbection hole you will
have to bend it slightly to guide it down the rear tube. Turn your light in the rear inspection hole to face down the rear tube and you can look in
the tube throught the trans mount bolt hole. Once the tube is at the opening in the frame, use a long thin philips screw driver or any long roung
object that you can fit into the fuel line. Reach into the tube with the 1/4 inch square steel piece you got at home depot, and gently lift the fuel
line up towards the opening and stick the philips screw driver in thru the frame opening into the end of the fuel line. This will act as a guide for
the line to follow up and out the hole. Now go back to teh front of the vehicle and push the line in and it will come out the rear hole very nicely.
Push about 1 foot of extra out the rear frame hole to allow you to have extra for working the front into the hole. Do not cut the extra off yet.
Go to the front of the vehicle and cut the tube with a tube cutter, Make sure you can get your philips screw driver in the end of it so you can guide
it out the frame hole like you did the rear.
Go to the rear and pull the line unti the end of the tube up front is aligned withe the hole in the frame and gently lift the line using the 1/4 inch
steel tube and insert the philips screw driver in the frame opening and into the fuel line. Go to the rear and push the fuel line back into the frame
and it should pop out the front hole.
Now you can adjust the tube inside the frame so it's in the straps you bent open. Use the 1/4 inch steel tube to pry the front clip back closed
around the fuel line.
With your tube cutter, cut the front and rear tube so you have about 4 inches sticking out. You can adjust this length later for the perfect fit.
Place the new rubber fuel line grommets over the fuel line an into the frame holes.
Reinstall your inslection cover, trans mount bolt, front access hole and front bumper and you have a new fuel line installed just like new without
cutting up you car. It took me 3 hours by myself with me car body still on my 66 very. If the pan is off the cat it's even easier.
It's not a bad job, just be patient and take your time.
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oval TOFU
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| posted on July 11th, 2009 at 06:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
| Quote: | Originally
posted by oval TOFU
I ended up threading a long guide wire through the existing fuel line, pulled out the fuel line (t'was a biach, but a pair of multi-grips and a
hammer and some swearing made me the victor of that battle)
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I can imagine your pain.
Did u do it with the body off?
And did you have the car up in a hoist.
I didn't fancy doing the job myself because my driveway is in an odd step angle and my garage is rather tight - making it very difficult for me to
crawl under the car.
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It was only on car stands, body on, with swearing. 
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
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Blue65
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| posted on July 27th, 2009 at 03:41 AM |
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My mechanic replaced the fuel line with a steel tubing on the passenger side - cost $300 (including GST)
Feels ok now.
But there still seems to be the smell of petrol coming from the tunnel - possibly the old stuff washed in there. Any ideas on how to clean it out?
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oval TOFU
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| posted on July 27th, 2009 at 11:04 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Blue65
My mechanic replaced the fuel line with a steel tubing on the passenger side - cost $300 (including GST)
Feels ok now.
But there still seems to be the smell of petrol coming from the tunnel - possibly the old stuff washed in there. Any ideas on how to clean it out?
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Try opening the rear inspection plate cover under the back seat and the front plate cover at the torsion bars and cycle air through there to help
evaporate the petrol? Over time, mine just all evaporated by itself..
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
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