| [ Total Views: 1728 | Total Replies: 20 | Thread Id: 94064 ] |
|
|
 Manxdune
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 81
Threads: 55
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 02:04 PM |
|
|
EFI AIR COOLED VW ???
Hi,
Is anyone here running EFI on their Air Cooled VW Motor ?
Whats the new operating temps like in comparison to the Standard VW Air Cooled Motor ?
Are you happy with the performance ?
What other complications have you come across and are you happy with the fuel economy post the change ?
Thanks James
|
|
|
SuperOwen
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 868
Threads: 67
Registered: January 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 02:16 PM |
|
|
Mine hasn't been running long but economy seems good so far. I haven't bothered measuring ir because I'm still tinkering with the tune. If your
ever down sydney way your welcome to have a look. One thing I would do next time is an IAC valve to assist with cold starts and general idle
smoothness. I will stick one in when I get time, at the moment I just add ignition advance when cold.
What setup you thinking of?
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 02:36 PM |
|
|
Yeah, quite a few people who've done EFI conversions on air-cooled motors.... including me with a Haltech system on my race bug. See this thread.
Operating temps basically unchanged over the carbs, but then I had 'em working pretty well where the engine spends most of it's time.
I'm happy with the performance, but obviously still want more... it's a race car after all !!! Likewise I have care factor zero as far as fuel
economy goes... I spend more on oil than I do fuel in a year.
Like SuperOwen I'm planning to throw an IAC in during the off-season, as well as putting in fuel correction off of head-temp and not just oil-temp
like have now... just to make cold start and warmup simpler, and cos I can !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8636
Threads: 559
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 03:01 PM |
|
|
Hi
You will find that Dave and Owen who have posted above have gone the custom set up route and did a lot of work themselves, it can work out expensive
that way depending on your ability.
I think the CB performance system for about $1800 us would be the way to go, I would only add surge tank / swirl pot to their system.
I used to have IDAs on a WBX motor, you had to plan every move to get the clutch and accelerator just right or the car could bog in the middle of an
intersection, when I went EFI on that car it was like driving a Camry, no matter what you did the with your feet the car just went. Dave and Owen
would have similar experiences.
Steve
|
|
|
SuperOwen
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 868
Threads: 67
Registered: January 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 03:34 PM |
|
|
Ill agree with dave about the coolant sensor as well. Oil temp works but the temperature the computer ideally needs for warm up is the intake port
wall temperature. The extra fuel is to compensate for fuel sticking to the cold walls mainly. Oil temp works but is hardly ideal.
CB is great value if you want dual throttle bodies, a must if your planning a cammy na engine.
|
|
|
beachbuggy61
Seriously Crusin Dubber
Posts: 162
Threads: 43
Registered: December 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Toukley, Central Coast NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Orange
Mood: Hangin' to drive my bug!
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 04:22 PM |
|
|
I'm running the CB kit but using a Megasquirt ECU to control it because it does the ignition as well (crank-trigger fire). The kit was relatively
easy to put in and started first kick. Now to get the tuning right once a few other little hiccups are fixed.
EFI was the only sensible option for me because of the turbo, but I think it'd still be a great thing for n/a
Baja
1915cc's of raw power 
Turbocharger
Intercooler
EFI
Crank fired Ignition
Runs E85
Engineered
"The Lord does not subtract from the life of a man, the hours spent on his Volkswagen" Anon. |
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 05:10 PM |
|
|
Yeah, as Steve says the drivability with the EFI is just brilliant compared to carbs !!! Very smooth when dialled in, even with a fairly big cam like
I have (FK87).
I have a big  on my face every time I drive her, even if it's just
round the block testing or down to the servo to fill up.
Good points made above about the CB kit also... not had personal experience with it, but looking through the specs, destructions and reviews in terms
of value for money I reckon it's very hard to beat.
Care to share what you're planning ???
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
cam070
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1332
Threads: 53
Registered: July 25th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Getting hands dirty stripping the bug down
|
| posted on November 29th, 2011 at 05:18 PM |
|
|
I've also been looking at the CB Quicktune kit. Just remember you need to add an electronic ignition system.
|
|
|
Manxdune
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 81
Threads: 55
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 02:00 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the feedback guys.
I am still undecided as to go water cooled EJ22 or EFI Air cooled VW ?
I am building a beach buggy with 31 x 10.5 tyres on the rear and require lots of torque rather than speed to get me through the sand and up hills etc
but also be a average driver on the road.
I am doing some research on what sort of power difference I would get between a n/a 1915 EFI VW and a standard n/a EJ22 ? Obviously the engine
capacity is different but curious on people opinions.
Fuel efficiency is always a plus for me
Whats your thoughts in comparing the two for my situation ?
Cheers James -
|
|
|
ian.mezz
Wolfsburg Elder
I never said, I could write or spell
Posts: 3913
Threads: 280
Registered: September 11th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 02:15 PM |
|
|
Subaru the only way to go 
I got 7.6 litres per 100 Ks LAST TRIP in my Subaru bug
MY vw powered BEETLE USES 13L per 100
|
|
|
SuperOwen
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 868
Threads: 67
Registered: January 18th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 02:17 PM |
|
|
Comes down to what floats your boat really.
How much fabrication and setup work can you do yourself?
As much as I hate to say it, an ej22 running the factory computer etc could be a more sensible option.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 02:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Manxdune
I am still undecided as to go water cooled EJ22 or EFI Air cooled VW ?
|
That was the exact scenario I was facing 3 years ago.
I had a freshly built 1776 that i was more than happy with, just wanted to get away from carbs.
There is just no comparison with EFI over carbs, EFI wins hands down in every respect except cost, oh and maybe looks.
Give me a pair of IDAs to look at any day over 3million hose fittings and wires.
I went the Subi cos no matter which way I went with EFI i was still gonna come out in front with the EJ22 and end up with more power, more torque and
better fuel economy not to mention longer lifespan.
But that's just my situation, not everyone wants to take on an engine swap but in a buggy its a pretty easy swap.
How often do you hit the sand?
Electrics of EFI might be a worry with long term build up of salt and moisture.
|
|
|
reub
Veteran Volks Folk
VWRX is gone...
Posts: 2054
Threads: 160
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 06:29 PM |
|
|
If i did it again I'd just wack a pair of Weber IDA's on... 
Reub
|
|
|
humpty
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Posts: 3336
Threads: 139
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Fremantle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Totally boosted!
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 09:22 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by reub
If i did it again I'd just wack a pair of Weber IDA's on...
|
Hahahahaha...... Bloody stirrer!
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on November 30th, 2011 at 09:31 PM |
|
|
I'm setting up a CB Quicktune now, and I have about 8 or 9 Haltech air coolers under my belt. Reub isn't far off in reality. Less work and certainly
carbs can be equally smooth IMO.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
humpty
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Posts: 3336
Threads: 139
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Fremantle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Totally boosted!
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 12:36 AM |
|
|
I'm fitting mexican manifold and TB, megasquirt efi and EDIS ignition to my Bus right now..... With a turbo on a stone stock 1600dp... Should make a
very nice daily driver I reckon.
We shall see how it all works out.
|
|
|
Manxdune
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 81
Threads: 55
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 01:25 AM |
|
|
Joel,
Do you have fabricated engine mounts for your EJ22 engine ?........ any pics ?
Or
Are you hanging the EJ22 off the VW Bell housing like a standard air cooled VW motor ?
Any mounting photos from anyone who has mounted a EJ22 to a VW gearbox would be more than helpful !
Cheers James
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 08:53 AM |
|
|
Hi James, it's just swung off the bellhousing with the forks strengthened by one of Craigs Kafer Bar kits
Been that way for 2 and half years and over 20,000kms and now with 170hp+ EJ25.
Thats all most of the converted Suba bugs getting around here have.
The SOHC non turbo engines are about 25kg heavier than a 1600 VW so I wouldn't recommend running with no bracing.
People do but the forks will bend eventually
|
|
|
Manxdune
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 81
Threads: 55
Registered: April 22nd, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth WA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 11:23 AM |
|
|
Thanks Joel,
That is what I will do i think re mounting.
I was a little worried that the heavier EJ22 would crack the VW Bellhousing but it sounds like it works.
For the Gearbox are you using a 3 bolt nosecone mount or a 2 bolt earlier nosecone mount ? I was told that the 3 bolt mount would break ! Could that
be true ?
And I am guessing that High Density Rubber mounts over urethane is the go ?
Cheers James
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 08:42 PM |
|
|
There's enough guys running round with EJ20 turbo engines which weigh more than a 22 and have alot more torque and haven't broken anything.
I'm using the stock 3 bolt front mount.
It is a shitty design compared to the earlier 2 bolt one but I doubt it would break unless you were doing something pretty silly.
I'm just running an original German mount which I fitted over 10 years ago now.
A Berg style mid mount would take most of the load of it.
Its been on my to-do list for years, I just f*ked up by running my coolant lines where the mounting lugs weld on.
|
|
|
humpty
Bishop of Volkswagenism
Posts: 3336
Threads: 139
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Fremantle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Totally boosted!
|
| posted on December 1st, 2011 at 08:57 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
There's enough guys running round with EJ20 turbo engines which weigh more than a 22 and have alot more torque and haven't broken anything.
|
My bro built an early Notch with an EJ20T nearly 15 years ago.... Built-in his own rear subframe off the transaxle and suspension to support the
engine.... No extra rear mounts at all.... No problems with his car at all.
|
|
|
