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Author: Subject:  radiator mounting subi conversion
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posted on March 16th, 2012 at 11:56 AM
radiator mounting subi conversion


I have seen alot of underbelly style radiator set ups and seem to be the favorite location but why?

there is a bay kicking around with the 3l subaru v6 motor and 2 honda radiators i think in one side of the engine compartment, now that's what I was thinking, why is this not commonly done? too hard?

when moving there will be enough air through the vent and when stationary good fans should cut the mustard surely??
i know gazman on kombi club has side mounted alloy one i think in a v6 kombi.

Feed back or pictures would be appreciated.

sorry if this has been brought up before i couldn't find it in my search.

Mike




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posted on March 16th, 2012 at 05:32 PM



if you put radiators in your engine bay at the back of you Kombi your just adding more heat, they could be a bitch to work on and get the radiator in there , its hard enough to change a kombi battery :crazy:



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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 04:10 PM



I really don't know why more people don't locate radiators in the engine bay - it seemed the most logical place when I did my conversion - its out of the way, not prone to damage and no one has any idea that you have a conversion - until a Kombi passes them at 110kph on the motorway.
I run a 2L JDM Subaru EJ20 with 2 Porsche Boxster/911 radiators, connected in series either side of the engine - there's heaps of room with the right size radiator. There's more than enough airflow when moving coming through the upper vents and fans cut in occasionally when running in traffic for a minute or two.
The only reason for the Porsche radiator was they were the right size and the right price on ebay - I'm sure many small jap radiators would do the job too. Also the stock Subie fans fitted the porsche radiators perfectly.
I did however move all the exhaust system out of the engine bay to keep all that extra heat out.
The cooling system work brilliantly.
This is my first post and haven't quite figured out how to load pictures but pm me if you like.




1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 04:33 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by mikew
i think in one side of the engine compartment, now that's what I was thinking, why is this not commonly done?


Quote:
Originally posted by karmann141
I really don't know why more people don't locate radiators in the engine bay


That's because 9 out of 10 of them don't work.
the 1 out of 10 will work adequately under most conditions but you'll find they will struggle when the going really gets tough unless you have huge rads and fans and heaps of cool air suppply.

You have to plan for the unforseen.
In the middle of summer if you come across one of those fatal accidents where the cops block most lanes off and you are sitting in bumper to bumper stop start stop start crawling traffic for 20 mins, 30 mins, an hour etc you will find out why the rads exhausting all that hot air into the engine bay is a bad idea.

You're not getting that road draft and fresh air into the engine bay of a kombi like a front engine car is and it's alot harder for it too escape.

Best spot for a kombi is up the front but alot of people don't like the look, which is fair enough so under the belly is the next best thing.
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 04:49 PM



9 out of 10 dont work because you havent set it up properly. Seal around the radiator cores sothat all the air goes through the radiator and NOT around it.
I live in Qld and have had no cooling problems in all conditions - even when factory front mounted radiatored cars a shi..ing themselves in the heat. There's more than enough room to get all that heat out of the engine bay, just get the exhaust and muffler out of there.
I've done it and it works brilliantly




1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 06:20 PM



I know the kombi that Karmann141 built and has proved itself over a long period of time in the Queensland heat, the only reason the other do not work is a lack of detail in fitting the rediators in the engine bay, a much neater solution than mounting the radiator up front but it requires far more work making all the sheet metal required to seal every thing correctly, moving the exhaust foward obviously helps, as for sitting in bumper to bumper stop start stop start traffic for 20 mins, 30 mins, an hour there is no car on earth that has any air flow into the engine bar other than what is provided by the fans
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 06:59 PM



Porsche radiators with standard Subaru thermo fans - no extra wiring - just plug in.

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
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2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:00 PM



Radiators

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:02 PM



Radiators with fans

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:04 PM



Plenty of space for hot air to escape (without exhaust adding to heat load)

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:07 PM



Radiators with engine

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:09 PM



Exhaust out of engine bay

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:17 PM



Mike,
Hope this helps you make an informed decision based on someone's experience that it actually works and not on speculation by someone who hasn't done it.

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 07:22 PM



i am glad that it works for you , but If i was doing a kombi I would just use one radiator like any other car on the street and keep it simple . to much in that engine bay for me . but that's just me.



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posted on March 27th, 2012 at 09:58 PM



I'm sure 1 would work too - a Porsche Boxster/911 uses 3 - not saying a Kombi is a Porsche - lots of ways to skin a cat. Just saying that a radiator in a Kombi engine bay can be made to work as efficiently as any other location and does not have any ground clearance/damage issues or spoil the look of a Kombi.



1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 02:51 PM



Thanks for the replies guys, I think they look neat in the engine bay there and symmetrical!
I was considering 2 radiators, possibly mounting a fan next to the body where I might put some splitty vents as I have a hole there already from some silly plastic scoops.


What part of qld are you kArmann?




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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 03:28 PM



Hi karmann141

That's a really nice setup, where's your battery located now?

Do your fans need to run much highway speeds or do you get good airflow from the vents?

None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.

I've seen some nice belly mounted radiators on Kombis.

Steve
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exclamation.gif posted on March 29th, 2012 at 05:20 PM



Just updated my profile - I'm in Carindale /Brisbane - often up the SShine coast at Perygian though.
Battery is now located Beetle style in box under RR bed/seat.
I have cut spare wheel well in half to create more uninterrupted air flow through the left radiator and also to create a sealed compartment for the computer and fan relays - only have old photo - when not yet completed.

I guess theres not much more heat in the engine bay than a standard Subaru or than most cars with the radiator in the engine bay. Water temp remains very stable and fans on come on for less than a minute at a time in traffic evry so often.
Another benefit of having the radiators in the engine bay is all the plumbing is kept short and simple. Comes up to temp quickly and remains constant - with standard thermostat in place - as Subaru designed.

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 05:23 PM



Haven't worked out how to load multiple photos yet - looking to do a bit of reliable touring and camping.

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 05:45 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by 1303Steve
None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.


Thing to remember about that is pretty much every car made in the last 20 years has an air box with ducting feeding it which takes in fresh air from outside the engine bay.

99% of engine conversions just stick a pod filter on the AFM and call it a day.

The engine is drawing in all that heat in the engine bay from the radiators.
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 06:40 PM



I thought the issue was whether radiators in the egine bay work or not -which they do.
If hot induction air is an issue that easily cure by creating a cold air induction intake - but it does'nt appear to be much of an issue.
Have a look at a Fast Fours mag and tell me how many pod filters you can find in the engine bay.




1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 09:15 PM



To add more than one pic at a time click on the side where it says ( - Add Attachment - )


When it comes to Pod filters It's monkey see monkey do.
Every young boy racer slaps a supercheap auto pod on his Commonwhore and instantly thinks he's Craig Lowndes.

Look closely at the Pods in your fast fours mags that aren't on trailer queens and you'll notice they are enclosed in cold air intakes like so

http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/Cold-Air-Engine-Bay.jpg

Trouble is with high intake temps you don't know it's a problem till the damage is done.
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posted on March 29th, 2012 at 09:40 PM



Here's some pix of the EZ30 Kombi :

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r520/subarugears/EZ30%20Kombi/IMG_0657.jpg

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r520/subarugears/EZ30%20Kombi/IMG_0659.jpg

The owner used 2 x Honda Civic racing radiators with some mods. Fitted the stock Subie fans with shrouds on them, The fans only come on when stopped in traffic.

We were discussing if there could be any improvements made to make sure the hot air is drawn out the back of the engine bay, without cutting holes in it our louvering it etc.

Someone has previously made a large rubber 'spoiler/strip' that bolts under the car at the front of the engine bay. This helps create a low pressure area in the engine bay and gets the hot air from the radiators sucked out the back.

Anywaym the owner of the EZ30 Kombi is very happy with the twin radiator solution. I think Karmann141's setup is neat and effective.




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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 08:10 AM



Quote:
Originally posted by Joel
Quote:
Originally posted by 1303Steve
None of us a racing for sheep stations but the only thing I'm not sure about is how much more heat your setup would add to the heating of the inlet tract, probably no more than a stock Subaru car.


Thing to remember about that is pretty much every car made in the last 20 years has an air box with ducting feeding it which takes in fresh air from outside the engine bay.

99% of engine conversions just stick a pod filter on the AFM and call it a day.

The engine is drawing in all that heat in the engine bay from the radiators.


Hi Joel

On rereading my post I wasn't very clear with my thoughts, what I was getting at was the inlet tract including the inlet manifold.

On conversions with radiators mounted outside the engine bay and without the radiators forcing heated air over the whole motor, the motor would have cooler air around it resulting in cooler intake temps.

The way that the karmann141 conversion is set-up the motor is maybe getting roughly the same amount of heated air blowing over it as a if it was in a Subaru car apart from the air inlet. A separate cool air intake would be a good idea on the karmann141 conversion.

Its one of the NSW RMS rules that air cleaners are enclosed, so open pods are defectable.

I have one of these K&N systems on my car and it is NSW RMS legal

Steve

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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 08:54 AM



I know the air box from my Liberty took a cold air feed from behind the drivers headlight so it wasn't getting hot air from the engine bay.

Enclosed pods seems to be a grey area when it comes to cars as old as ours.
I think it's more an issue in modern cars that have factory enclosed air boxes.
When my bug was engineered he was perfectly happy with my Pod filter completely open, just as long as it was adequately supported.
I'm currently working on an enclosed cold air intake similar to Jaks with mine.

Todd, am I right in thinking that EZ30 has fit the type4 engine bay with no cutting?
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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 09:21 AM



I think the front firewall needed to be modified.
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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 11:23 AM



hey karmann

i am also in carindale i have a76 bay with subie ej 25 in it

I woudl like to catch up with you and see your conversion
paul
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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 12:00 PM



Quote:
Originally posted by Joel

Todd, am I right in thinking that EZ30 has fit the type4 engine bay with no cutting?


No cutting. Looks like a bit of 'peening' with a hammer on the firewall is about all.


http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r520/subarugears/EZ30%20Kombi/IMG_9133.jpg




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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 01:02 PM



Gotta be happy with that.
Why don't more Kombi owners realize how well they fit.

Certainly fits much better than the porch 911 engine in my uncles brothers cousins twice removed sisters mechanics kombi back in the day that lifted the front wheels 6 feet and ate Monaros for breakfast

true story :rolleyes:
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posted on March 30th, 2012 at 03:59 PM



Thanks for the advice Steve - like the look of your K&N filter. Always happy to make improvements and take advice from someone who has tried it.



1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV
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