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36 hp clutch replacement shudder

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oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022525
Ive just replaced the clutch in my 59 Beetle (36hp and splitcase trans) and it shudders worse than the original, but only on hillstarts, even slight ones. On the flat and downhill it seems fine.

As soon as I slip the clutch on a hillstart both doors nearly rattle off.

New pressure plate, clutch plate, throwout bearing, gland nut, machined both surfaces of the flywheel, new clutch cable and borden tube and reco'd trans.

It has the type of flywheel where the clutch plate is recessed into the flywheel

I don't think it's getting enough clamping pressure.

Any ideas or tricks I'm missing?

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 ·

#1022527
engine mounts????
Keeping it real !

adlbeetle66 Under the car.........again!

1,476 posts · joined Aug 2014 ·

#1022529
Did you use a pressure plate with a solid ring in the middle?

bevoracing Officially Full-On Dubber

327 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022531
Somehow I’ve always known, that you must always tighten the bolts that hold the pressure plate with a tension wrench, to the factory spec, and it’s not very tight. If you over tighten them, the clutch shudders, apparently. Personally I’ve never bothered to over tighten them to find out.
Hope that helps.
Tony
Country Buggy King & Link Pin Overhauls, Type 1 & 2 King Pins, General Machining.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=74138
My car is KO813

ragged Just ask if you need HELP!

478 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#1022532
Make sure you have some "bow" in the bowden tube between the chassis and the transmission.
Dave

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022533
5 things I can think of.

1) correct bowden tube bend

2) Correct torque of pressure plate bolts

3) Is the friction plate the sprung type or solid?

4) all gearbox mounting rubbers in good order

5) Correct thrust bearing and pressure plate have been installed
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1022536
look at the above especially the mounts

It will have to come out again did you check the end float on the engine
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022540
Thanks for the replies.

Engine mounts are new wolfsburg west rubber mounts.
Its a finger spring style pressure plate
I didnt torque the pressure plate bolts
I think the bowden tube has a slight/gentle bend, i will check and put a pic up.
Looks like its coming out again!

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022541
And end float on the engine was good

bushed Wolfsburg Elder

3,541 posts · joined Dec 2006 ·

#1022544
My 2 cents worth Chris

1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension

(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#1022552
bushed wrote:My 2 cents worth Chris

1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension

(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
Try fitting a couple of washers as Chris says (put a cut in them to slip over the cable and slide down onto the bowden spigot)
When the engine is out check that the pressure plate pad is parallell to the flywheel ( we used to adjust the fingers to a standard height)
The other possibility is that the clutch plate may have been distorted during the engine fitment.

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022573
oldturtle22 wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Engine mounts are new wolfsburg west rubber mounts.
Its a finger spring style pressure plate
I didnt torque the pressure plate bolts
I think the bowden tube has a slight/gentle bend, i will check and put a pic up.
Looks like its coming out again!
So when you say finger spring, do you mean the early style 3 large fingers or the modern style of multiple small spring steel fingers? The modern one needs to have a landing ring in the centre of the fingers for the thrust bearing to work against. If it don't have this you'll get chatter under load.
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022580
Its the modern type of pressure plate Mike.

Would you have a photo of this landing ring?

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#1022582
Try some more bend in the Bowden tube with the washers before you pull the engine out.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 ·

#1022586
grumble wrote:
bushed wrote:My 2 cents worth Chris

1 take off the doors....lol
2 check the flimsy bracket is not split from fatigue voiding the Bowden tube tension

(lengthen tube by adding washers btw)
Try fitting a couple of washers as Chris says (put a cut in them to slip over the cable and slide down onto the bowden spigot)
When the engine is out check that the pressure plate pad is parallell to the flywheel ( we used to adjust the fingers to a standard height)
The other possibility is that the clutch plate may have been distorted during the engine fitment.
Does it have a spigot bearing in the flywheel bolt,it may also be a mismatch of the clutch plate/pressure plate. (clutch plate contacting inside of the pressure plate due to plate height)

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022600
Ok will do Dave. I forgot to mention its got 1 x cut washer installed already between the bracket on the gearbox and borden tube. Looks like an og part from memory

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022605
Here's links for pictures of each clutch type.

Early style clutch for non-guide tube type throw out bearing
Early clutch

And the later type clutch that has a guide tube around the gearbox input shaft that the thrust bearing slides along and keep it parallel to the spring fingers of the pressure plate
Late clutch

So unless you've swapped out the gearbox then you should be using an early type clutch. 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022651
Mike i cant see the links. Thats Ok though

Dave, the bowden tube is just about straight, I'm pretty sure I checked the length against the old one and it was the same length and it had the same problem except not so bad. Ill add a few washers first and see how we go!

Cheers

AA003 Custom Title Time!

1,189 posts · joined Oct 2011 ·

#1022653
oldturtle22 wrote:Mike i cant see the links. Thats Ok though

Dave, the bowden tube is just about straight, I'm pretty sure I checked the length against the old one and it was the same length and it had the same problem except not so bad. Ill add a few washers first and see how we go!

Cheers
From memory you should have a 25mm bend in it. Pack it with washers to get the bend or your clutch will shudder.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.

Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!😂

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022655
ok i shimmed it up and I think its about an inch of bend. Ill confirm though. Either way, its improved but still shudders. I may shim it up once more with another washer before I remove the engine. Thanks for all replies.

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022667
The links were just txt in AussieDubbers so click of Early Clutch and Late Clutch.

If not then I've uploaded them here too.

1 attachment · Log in to view

madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1022668
And the late style clutch

1 attachment · Log in to view

madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022673
Great thanx Mike. Im with you now. It is the early style and Im sure the landing ring was fitted. Ive gotta place another shim to put more tension on the borden tube and we will see how tgat goes. Not counting my chickens though. Update inbound

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1022680
Great thanx Mike. Im with you now. It is the early style and Im sure the landing ring was fitted. Ive gotta place another shim to put more tension on the borden tube and we will see how tgat goes. Not counting my chickens though. Update inbound

oldturtle22 Officially Full-On Dubber

267 posts · joined Nov 2011 ·

#1023329
I ended up shimming the borden tube to get a bend in it and now I have no shudder. Thanks all.

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 ·

#1023330
Cool. Glad it was a simple fix 🙂
madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍