Horn constantly Grounded

smithy68 Wolfsburg Wizard

419 posts · joined Oct 2010 · 1 Oct 2016, 6:32 pm

#1030458

Hi I have a 67 VW beetle, the type that the column, bearing is live but protected from ground.

My issue is I have had the column out of the car multiple times to try and resolve, I know that the column rubbers are new and insulating from body ground. The ground wire that runs down the steering shaft I have replaced twice to be sure it was not grounding inside the shaft.
The issue is I have a ground on the steering shaft piece between the steering wheel and the coupling and I should have no ground.

Is there something I have missed? I am loosing my mind trying to fix it.

If there are any suggestions or things I might have missed please do tell. Many thanks.

P.S I currently have a light globe where the horn would usually attach for testing. I have noticed when I turn the steering the globe will dim considerably in certain spots but never go out totally.

Here is a diagram of the steering/horn setups, mine is the 60-67

http://www.jbugs.com/VW-Tech-Article-Steering-Wheel-Horn-Diagrams.html

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 1 Oct 2016, 7:56 pm

#1030461

There is a piece screwed under the steering wheel to cancel the bllnkers,this is insulated,sometimes the insulation is missing and the horn will blow ,another issue can be the screws that hold the horn ring are also insulated if the insulation is OK the screws may be overtightened causing the problem. unfortunately there are so many possibilities that it is hard to diagnose without actually working from a starting point. i assume that the column does not contact the outer column at any stage.

smithy68 Wolfsburg Wizard

419 posts · joined Oct 2010 · 1 Oct 2016, 10:11 pm

#1030466

Yes the column does contact the outer column as the whole thing is hot, my model the bearing is not insulated, I have the ground still with the indicator stalk and steering wheel off, I have got to be missing something really simple.

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 · 2 Oct 2016, 10:34 pm

#1030482

Righto, so the outer column has the positive from the actual horn connected under the fuel tank at the base of the outer column? This makes both the outer column and steering shaft positive, yes?
With the steering wheel removed and the ground wire dangling in mid air from the hollow of the steering shaft? Hence no way for a ground short to exist in the steering wheel?

If all of this is correct then you either have a short in the wire from the horn to the column or the rubber coupler to the steering box is grounding the steering shaft. This has been known to happen due to metal mesh being sandwiched in the rubber coupler making the coupler conductive.

madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

smithy68 Wolfsburg Wizard

419 posts · joined Oct 2010 · 4 Oct 2016, 6:54 am

#1030513

I have found the fault, the steering coupling inside the bolt holes where the metal collars were removed there is a copper metal touching the collars and bolt causing an earth, I assumed they were solid rubber!! Unbelievable, Cheers for all the help guys
So the part number 251 419 417b has a metal reinforced layer, and I assume the 251 419 417 does not.

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 · 12 Oct 2016, 9:32 pm

#1030737

smithy68 wrote:I have found the fault, the steering coupling inside the bolt holes where the metal collars were removed there is a copper metal touching the collars and bolt causing an earth, I assumed they were solid rubber!! Unbelievable, Cheers for all the help guys
So the part number 251 419 417b has a metal reinforced layer, and I assume the 251 419 417 does not.

ah ha, I win again 🙂 Glad I could steer you towards the problem. 🙂

madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍

smithy68 Wolfsburg Wizard

419 posts · joined Oct 2010 · 13 Oct 2016, 6:34 pm

#1030750

Thanks psimitar!

psimitar Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,506 posts · joined Jan 2009 · 13 Oct 2016, 6:56 pm

#1030751

smithy68 wrote:Thanks psimitar!

Your welcome 🙂

madness is in the eye of the beholder 👍