I finish this summary when I get some more energy-too late.
VW Nats 2003 not run
VW Nats 10 Apr 2004 1/4 mile 12.91 106.77mph Leigh Harris
Craig Paton 12.58 104mph
Morgan Smith 12.40 103mph (normally aspirated)
Rod Richardson 12.29 106mph
Adam Debaisi 12.03 114mph (turbo).
Regards,Glenn>
Peter Page has just run an 11.99,
that would make him the quickest wouldn't it?
Sorry guys for being a pain but I ran 11.92et in Rod Richardson car . This could be the quickest all-carb vw in Aust and registed .
Yes In deede,
The Fastest street registered VW in Aust is the Rod Richardson
/ driven by Peter Page I saw the Time slip
11.92 sec at 109.68 mph ...
( I saw the Losers Time Slip
The loser who went on to win $500 for runner up in the
bracket.)(congrats Morgan)
Regards,Glenn>
Humble Pete forgot to mention the car is current ANDRA Sport Compact All Motor ET record holder at 12.25.
This means car is ANDRA checked and at legal weight of 1750 lbs .
I'd like to throw in a can of worms and ask would a water cooled vw be able to compete for the Gene Berg trophy ?
Don't see why not, turbos are allowed.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
1302Steve wrote:Hi
Below is a copy of the rules that were devised to try and clear this grey area up and are used at the VW Nationals to help decide the winner. You will never stop a trophy hunter, but with the resourses we have this the best we could come up with. These rules were worked out with the help of Dave Birchall, Geoff "Onion" Unwin & Gene Berg. BTW, Lexan windows are legal in all but the windscreen, but to try and level out the playing field we insist that all window be galss.
1302Steve
Gene Berg Trophy Drag Race Rules
The Gene Berg Trophy is a perpetual award, presented to the driver of the FASTEST ROAD REGISTERED VW. As there may be some confusion over exactly what is a "road registered" car, the following rules have been implemented.
1. The vehicle must be registered. That is the chassis and engine numbers must match up with the registration papers, sticker and plates. This can be checked by the scrutineers.
2. The cooling system must be intact. The cylinder tin, fan housing and fan must be fitted, although the fan belt may be removed for a run.
3. The best time only in "racing" will be counted.
4. The vehicle must run on pump petrol, for example leaded super, or standard or hi octane unleaded. No exotic chemistry allowed.
5. Street tyres must be run .No drag slicks are allowed. Road tyres must have a minimum of 1.5 mm tread.
6. Fitting of the rear seat and rear seat belts is optional but both front seats and belts must be fitted.
7. Fibreglass mudguards, bonnets, whale tails and spoilers are allowed, but the body and doors must be factory steel.
8. No perspex windows are allowed, all windows must be glass.
9. The spare wheel must be fitted for safety reasons.
10. Exhaust design is unlimited except that it must meet the track noise requirements.
11. Vehicles for this class must be able to be driven on the street in the normal manner. If scrutineers are in any doubt, you may be required to complete a 15 km drive.
Nothing about beetles, water-cooled, year models, turbos.
So I guess a twin turboed passat could win the Gene Berg trophy.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
So I guess a twin turboed passat could win the Gene Berg trophy. [/quote]
No it couldn't, the air coolers would whip it's arse! :thumb
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
Hate to throw a spanner in the works, but was 11.92 done on slicks or street tyres. Just wondering still bloody impressive.
slicks and stinger, dont quote me on the stinger.
2. The cooling system must be intact. The cylinder tin, fan housing and fan must be fitted, although the fan belt may be removed for a run.
water cooled cars dont have cylinder tin! I suppose it could be fitted just to comply though?
I say they can compete if they drain all the water prior to a run!
Hi!Everyone,this is draging on!!!!!! in a big way. Everyone is missing the big picture. It doesn't matter what you race( Air cooled, water cooled, turbo,nitrous) as long that you are racing . The BERG Trophy was good in its day but its behide in times with rules and safety . Trophys collect dust,they don't help you race or get to the track, or pay for maintenance of vehicle. We need people to think about the future of the vw scene . THINK ABOUT IT !!!!! eg, five years time ( ten or more drag cars, people coming here from over sea's,clubs helping each other ) lots more.
DITTO!! I agree, but hey, i'm from the dark side with my turbo, rotary, kombi!
400hp out of the kombi and into my notch will should have quick times. Street slicks and registed.
I say (just keep racing),vw motor or not.😉
Hey, Dak a Tak and quick camper,The words of wisdom i just love it i agree.We need to get with the times.We all think we have quick cars, instead of talking shit all the time lets prove it on the track. Rules are rules but need to be broken to keep every body happy.Keep smiling be happy JVLRacing
Hey Dave dont be so sure Watercooled wouldnt start running a few good times . I just think nobody has spent any real money on late vw's to make them go .
I'm still intrugued about the rules and could they be altered in some way to include all members of the vag stable . That is Audi Seat and Skoda as well , But , there must be some kind of limitation to engine size so that a w16 bugatti or something cant enter . Any ideas or am I just dreaming here?
Bumping an old thread . As you can see my last post was almost 6 years ago and this debate has been raging for almost a decade (albeit silently till now) . Anyone who thinks the Gene Berg rules should be ammended ?
Who are you ! Bug-racer . Six years in hiding .
Are the Berg rules relavent anymore?
Bug_racer wrote:Bumping an old thread . As you can see my last post was almost 6 years ago and this debate has been raging for almost a decade (albeit silently till now) . Anyone who thinks the Gene Berg rules should be ammended ?
yes I do!
should be ammended to......
FASTEST STREET REGISTERED AIRCOOLED VW
😂
the rest seems pretty simple to me. it wasn't a trophy for quickest race car, or fastest of the day........not for a V8 twin supercharged midmounted kombi........or a beetle with speed holes cut all through it and a big motor and box slapped in the week before to an already registered beetle.....
simply a high HP registered, streetable aircooled VW that made the best time of the day
obviously Rod Richardsons 48 IDA bug would whip some serious ass had it been run when the trophy was up for grabs
was it just another "class", that was awarded a trophy?............imagine it these days ? ...................Aarron could turn up in the kombi and i'm sure everyone would remember it......no one would forget the noise of cranky too or the twins........or the faultless runs of DB........or a "houndog" V "henry"............................and someone would win some "gene berg trophy" in a street car........???
i'm going round in circles anyways
😂Dam this thread had turned into a discussion and a half!
I definately agree with Dak a tak, people are missing the big picture and all things must grow / change with times.
hellbugged wrote:Bug_racer wrote:Bumping an old thread . As you can see my last post was almost 6 years ago and this debate has been raging for almost a decade (albeit silently till now) . Anyone who thinks the Gene Berg rules should be ammended ?
yes I do!
should be ammended to......
FASTEST STREET REGISTERED AIRCOOLED VW
😂
the rest seems pretty simple to me. it wasn't a trophy for quickest race car, or fastest of the day........not for a V8 twin supercharged midmounted kombi........or a beetle with speed holes cut all through it and a big motor and box slapped in the week before to an already registered beetle.....
simply a high HP registered, streetable aircooled VW that made the best time of the day
obviously Rod Richardsons 48 IDA bug would whip some serious ass had it been run when the trophy was up for grabs
was it just another "class", that was awarded a trophy?............imagine it these days ? ...................Aarron could turn up in the kombi and i'm sure everyone would remember it......no one would forget the noise of cranky too or the twins........or the faultless runs of DB........or a "houndog" V "henry"............................and someone would win some "gene berg trophy" in a street car........???
i'm going round in circles anyways
😂
Fantastic post Daimo
IMO the Gene Berg trophy was put into existence for the ideals of Gene Berg and what he felt was the most deserving car, based around his beliefs ( and the basis his business was started and grew from) basically a fast reliable STREET car. Actually to rephrase the obvious there, a fast reliable street air cooled beetle.
Easy really.
🙂Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
So what you guys are saying only applies to aircooled cars . So there is no way you can have a fast reliable watercooled VW ?
The reason why Gene didnt go into watercooled cars was because he was old and he built his whole workshop around air cooled cars . Not long after he died I noticed here in Sydney a lot of workshop started closing or started working on watercooled cars . Before that time it was like only Mullers and a small few that worked on watercooled cars . Hellbug / SKH /Dr Lubes etc have all faded away as a once proud Aircooled workshop into history while others like Vintage Vee Dub and Volksbahn etc started taking on watercooled cars into their service centres as air cooled numbers fell . Gene Berg enteprises started doing the same thing . Its now 2010 , some 33 years since the last air cooled bug was sold .
The whole notion of having a Gene Berg trophy for quick air cooled car is flawed . Everyone has progressed except for the select few of pursist who carry on a tradition based on old values and sentiments . The rules can be changed to allow all VAG cars to compete , but its more the acceptance of these rules by the hard line right wing aircooled owners that needs to be adopted so that this can continue on in many years to come . You guys are so stubborn your going to let the Gene Berg trophy fade away as a memory of bitter fueds of rules and regulations that could not be resolved thus allowing the memory of a once proud competition dissolve . Question is , Is that what Gene Berg would have wanted ?
a good street car class should combine both air cooled
and water cooled vws to compete, as long as cars are
registered and roadworthy. and if its a bug it should have
a type one engine, if its a kombi have the right type of
engine that came with that model kombi. and if its golf
passat etc. it should have the right engine that came
with that model car. i love the air cooled vws personally
but would like to see a tuff street vw class that
comprises air cooled and water cooled vws together.
but roadworthiness will be hard. engine lids must be on,
no full fibreglass front . fibreglass guards shouldnt
matter they are not that much lighter then steel.
no stingers. full cooling system should be on.
no exposed front mount coolers.
no turbos hanging out of the bonnet or bootlid.
only plumbed back wastegates.
but there is always loop holes in all rules.
I have just read through 9 pages of discussion regarding the fastest street registed VW , and I could not believe that there was no mention of my turbo oval . Has everyone forgotton it ?
I busted my arse in 2005 to build a full street car , with full glass & rubbers , headliner , door panels , carpets , both front seats , spare tyre and pump 98 ULP fuel , to compete in the VW nationals drags / Gene Berg trophy . What a waste of time it was , I built the turbo oval beetle , showed every step of the build to aussie vee-dubber readers , had it engineered , street registed and engine /chassis numbers matched the paperwork .
I ran 11.6@122mph at the VW nationals drags only to be denied the trophy and have it awarded to a watercooled audi that ran 2 secs slower .
This is what happens in racing when some moron in the management doesnt like you and/or your car , or you are beating his mates .
It doesnt matter what rule changes are made , some clown will always be there to stuff it all up .
Since then the street registed and engineered turbo oval at WPVW has run 6.73@109.75mph (1/8 mile) and 10.49sec@132mph (1/4 mile) on street tyres .
AUSTRALIAS FASTEST STREET REGISTED AIR-COOLED VW , until proven otherwise .
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
And Arron Britcher's Black Squareback Panel is on the road now.....Now that has to be a real contender! He hasn't run it at the drags yet...Maybe next year!
I have seen this on the street twice. Pity is never gets driven.
Lovely car.
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
hypo-vw wrote:I have just read through 9 pages of discussion regarding the fastest street registed VW , and I could not believe that there was no mention of my turbo oval . Has everyone forgotton it ?
I busted my arse in 2005 to build a full street car , with full glass & rubbers , headliner , door panels , carpets , both front seats , spare tyre and pump 98 ULP fuel , to compete in the VW nationals drags / Gene Berg trophy . What a waste of time it was , I built the turbo oval beetle , showed every step of the build to aussie vee-dubber readers , had it engineered , street registed and engine /chassis numbers matched the paperwork .
I ran 11.6@122mph at the VW nationals drags only to be denied the trophy and have it awarded to a watercooled audi that ran 2 secs slower .
This is what happens in racing when some moron in the management doesnt like you and/or your car , or you are beating his mates .
It doesnt matter what rule changes are made , some clown will always be there to stuff it all up .
Since then the street registed and engineered turbo oval at WPVW has run 6.73@109.75mph (1/8 mile) and 10.49sec@132mph (1/4 mile) on street tyres .
AUSTRALIAS FASTEST STREET REGISTED AIR-COOLED VW , until proven otherwise .
While the whole build was good and AFAIK you are the quickest VW street car it really doesnt go with what the Gene Berg trophy is all about .
How you got it registered with a 2700cc+ Turbo engine in an early beetle is beyond me . In my terms that would be like putting an R32 engine in a MK1 Golf then turbo charging it . It would absolutely fly and you could probably pass rego but its not a true street car . Did you drive it there or have it towed ? If your towing it then how is it any different to a drag car ? A bit of paperwork that says its complied and registered doesnt pass . If thats the case then this is a street car too :
rego is PACMAN .
As much as I liked watching your build and seeing your car race its not a true street car . Others make think otherwise , thats why a set of uniform rules should be made
A street car is a car that can get driven around on the road and when pulled over by transport department doesn t fail any of there "RULES". Mr penrose would definately pass that test and is the guy i thought of when i first saw this post.
Bug_racer are you still cranky we're not talking about water cooled cars? Your last comment was one of the stupidest things i have heard.
We all know that alot of these cars, if they were taken to the RTA (NSW) would have no chance of passing an inspection, ande the engineer who passed it would lose his lisence, I mean no offence to any out there, even I can go down to habiby's work shop and get a pink slip. Personly I couldn't give a shit, but don't kid yourselves, even if you have an after market steering wheel you can be defected.
This debate could go on for ever.
tayloredvw wrote:A street car is a car that can get driven around on the road and when pulled over by transport department doesn t fail any of there "RULES". Mr penrose would definately pass that test and is the guy i thought of when i first saw this post.
Bug_racer are you still cranky we're not talking about water cooled cars? Your last comment was one of the stupidest things i have heard.
Your saying it gets driven around . I never seen that Pac car get driven to the track its always been towed . Yeah it has plates and can drive to the track but it never does . Would you consider it a street car still cause it can do it ?
Im not cranky about the watercooled thing . Im just trying to see where the line is between street car and race car . For me my line is simple . If a car has to be towed anywhere unless its broken down it no longer qualifies as a street car . Im just asking for your opinion
