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ColumBUS Hail To The Bus Driver!

3,601 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#321570
yeah im a big kid but thats why im there, the rest of the team rushes ahead i carry the stacks of weight while they get a good spot in the line for activities - the hike is points based.

we can talk more about dragonskin in the late night dubbers club to avoid thread hijacking... ummm... i dont believe in god (now its relevant!)

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#321640
eirecooled wrote:so are you saying that you believe, because you fear the consequences of if you are wrong?
Nope I don't fear them, If I'm right I've got so much to gain. If I'm wrong I don't really think I've lost much. For me it is not about fear.

And the bible wasn't written to control the masses. It was written to tell people about God. That's all. What's the problem? Does it make you feel threatened?

BTW, can can you guys attack one at a time please, it's a bit hard to respond otherwise. 😉

[Edited on 18/3/2005 by pete wood]
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

ColumBUS Hail To The Bus Driver!

3,601 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#321645
we're not attacking, simply expressing our opinions.

how would you feel if you did find out there was no god? i mean ur currently devoting ur life to it all/ its an interesting question to ask.

what would happen to the world if we truly discovered that there was no god? or that there was one god and that everyone else was wrong?

i think there would be more wars then than there ever will be now.

Starbug rustbag

2,408 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·

#321705
winerot wrote:LSD
yes please :thumb
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#321746
Kroozin_Kikko wrote:we're not attacking, simply expressing our opinions.
Settle, I was just stirring you up :P
how would you feel if you did find out there was no god? i mean ur currently devoting ur life to it all/ its an interesting question to ask.

what would happen to the world if we truly discovered that there was no god? or that there was one god and that everyone else was wrong?

i think there would be more wars then than there ever will be now.
If I'm wrong then I'm stuffed I spose. But I really don't think I'm wrong. I was very skeptical before I was a Christian. You can't imagine how surprised I was when I realised, all of a sudden that God was real, and that the bible was right. What's more, my conversion had nothing to do we being manipulated or guilted in any way.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

~air fooled~ two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl

1,429 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#321782
hey i'll step up to the plate and have a few words, gotta pass time at work hehehe:P:P:P

i was born into a christian family, nearly drowned at my my baptism in the local schools pool (bastards! hahaha), and whilst i believe in god and live my life in his mould the best i can, i no longer go to church.

i have become disillusioned with the commercialism that is modern religion and the group mentality that occurs within those walls. the bottom line is that i am a questioning person and i see too many people believing without thinking beacause 'the pastor knows all'. he may be a holy man, yet a falliable man still....

my beef is not with god, but how many people choose to teach his words today.

i'll tell you a story that may reflect where i am coming from. my parents went to the same church for 20 years. my mum never had as much faith and devotion as my father, yet tried her best to be a good christian and never miss church. my dad had been run over when i was 1, and ended up being hospitalised for a year and getting a trachaotomy, one of those tubes sticking in your throat so you can breath. he donated $20 000 towards building a new church out of his $70 000 payout from being run over, yet has never been treated like one of 'them'. same with mum. the church had all these clicky groups, not exactly the open arms that they are supposed to be...dad never had a true friend from there, every time he was in need, no-one was about. every time one of these people who rejected him were in need, he was there for them. my mum stopped going to church as she could see it was all bullshit there, too many selfish people behaving one day a week.

my dad had suffered brain damage when he had been run over, something that you couldnt notice unless you lived with him, otherwise he was a perfectly normal man. for a long time behind closed doors he was violent, but religiously violent. he use to use the bible for ammo and be spitting out verses as he threw things and us about the house. when we told the pastor, my father was pretty much isolated, and rumours were spread.
a few years back mum finally had enough of my dad and got him committed
to a mental hospital where he stayed for nearly a year. now my father who had gone to church twice on sundays and numerous bible studies through the week for 20 years sat at that hospital for nearly a without 1 single visitor from the church. no pastor, no deacons, no 'friends'. my dad was the most giving man you could find, utterlley selfless and forgiving (except to me and my mother) to anyone in the church for 20 years straight and again, no one was there for him. no-one questioned why this dude who never missed a sunday session in 20 years didnt turn up for 2 months in a row...initially we didnt tell the church as we didnt want it spread that he had mental problems, that wasnt going to do him any favours with that bunch, but my nana and aunty ended up telling the pastor and asking him to see my father. the pastor never came, the church never prayed for him, all they did was spin rumours as the news was leaked.

anyway, thats just part of everything... i am angry at the way my family has been treated by the church,and i have been to other places since, though nothing changes... i find more peace and contentment within myself then i do with the unquestioning sheep within those walls. i live my life the best and kindest i can, pray not enough but try none the less....

one day i may give another church a chance, but i'm pretty damaged you see..

anyway, thats my 2 cents...
everything dies baby, thats a fact..
maybe everything that dies one day comes back..
put your make up on and your hair up pretty..
and meet me tonight in Atlantic city..

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#321804
Airfooled;

Man, I'm so sorry, you are right, that doesn't sound like a supportive and loving church to me.

I'm also sorry that you guys feel so far away from God because of the way you were treated. I too have had terrible suffering through a bad church experience.

I also grew up in a christian Family. We went to church each week and I myself accepted the truth about Jesus when I was in year 11. When I was about 20, something terrible happened. A very close friend of mine, who had been running the youth group with her husband, attempted suicide. Then we found out why.
Her and her husband had been having marriage problems. The minister had been counciling them. In the context of that counciling he had sought to set them against eachother so he could proposition her. He sexually abused her for several months. She didn't tell anyone becasue she didn't want to ruin the church for everyone else, and besides she had no self-esteem and thought no-one would believe her. One day she couldn't handle it anymore. She took a whole lot of pills and tried to die.

At first everyone thought she was complicit in the sexual relationship, then everyone realised that the minister was lying to them.

Another woman, also a friend, who had left under weird circumstances came out and told everyone, he done a similar thing to her. Only when she refused him, he'd threaten to tell her abusive husband she was having an affair.

The church exploded and split down the middle. Many of the people I grew up with never went back. They will never trust a minister again. I myself was enraged for a long time. I saw the minister in question driving down the road one day and it was all I could do to stop myself driving him off the road in my car.
Worse still, the church powers bungled it totally, the minister wasn't disciplined properly and he's still at the church.

All of my family has been traumatised by this situation. My mother still had an issue with ministers and church Heirachy. Still is still meeting with senior church officials to try and get this guy kicked out.

I will never recover fully from that situation and I still have major problems trusting ministers, which is really weird because I am becoming one. The only thing I have to stand on is this. Jesus loves the people who trust in him. Churches are made up those people, and they mistakes, lots of mistakes.

I don't mind telling you I feel like crying now, telling you this is really hard. (sound of Pete blowing his nose)

But the thing is, people need good godly men to lead churches and kick Christians in the butt when they don't love other people like they should. Most Christian ministers are good guys who are trying to do the right thing.

Whether you go back to church or not, I can understand if you don't, just remember Jesus came to save after everyone, especially the sick, the abused and the rejected, keep on trusting in him.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Herbie 53 Bugs are not nearly enough

764 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#321809
The whole concept of forgiving sins is a cop out.
It encourages people to sin for a start as they know if they go to church they can get the forgiveness, so they can start fresh on Monday.
Thats so Hippocritical, put it gets impressionable bums on seats in churches.

It also amazes me that any ficticious being refered to as god, can be refferred to as "OUR" God, thats a trap If I ever saw one,
Feels a little too petty to object to the statement but its the thin edge of the wedge that religous groups use to open you up to the
"Join Us" Principal, if we dont say, Whoah, Hang on, "OUR" God, since when did your beliefs become "OUR" beliefs? then we have already taken the first step into getting bamboozled by their distorted sense of reason, And I personally find it quite Patronising and unsettling.
Someone who uses this teqnique either is well aware of what they are doing and working at being deceptive;
or does not see that the reference to "OUR" is improper because they never questioned it when it was first served up to them.

Child Phycology 101:
Q. Are you coming inside with a smack or with out a smack billy?
A. Without a smack Mum/Dad
Response, Thats good Billy.

Here the question of whether Billy is coming inside is removed as an option by stating it as fact but giving Billy the freedom to Choose whether he will be recieving a smack or not, because humans like to choose, its part of having a brain that we can use.

This is a quote from JENZ 58 {I'm not having a go at Jenz 58, I'm just using the statements as an example of what I am Talking about.

"Did God create what is written or men in their quest for power and control??"
and
"Yep...I wonder who the ultimate god is though???"

These statements remove the question of Whether there actually is a God and Replaces the Question with an assumed fact. Much like Billy coming inside, there is no Question its just the way it is. Because thats what you need to tell Billy to control his behavior, otherwise he is likely to say,
" no, I'm going for a walk to see what interesting things I can find!"

instead, it focuses on a question that hasn't earned the right to be asked in this context, as it is built on grand Assumptions that the questionee has already agreed that God Does indeed exist without a doubt.

If I say, "I wonder if the mathematical formula 3+2=7 is a blue fact or a red fact????"
most people would question why I am concerned about it being red or blue rather than bieng a flawed formula, because its easy to prove that 3+2=5 and not 7, only the slow, or gullible will join forces with the Question poser and ponder the attributes of why it might be red or why it might be blue
with the Question of God you could be a lot sharper and yet miss the trap, but theres plenty who walk right into it.
To be truly accurate with such a topic you need to answer each Question in order from most important to least important, and if you cant actually work out the answer to Question 1. "Is There A God?" then proceeding to any further questions where God is assumed to exist is a recipe for disaster.

Why Dont we start with What Does "Exist" mean?
does it mean can we touch it? can we see it?
if so then does my child hood memory exist, It cant be touched or seen by anyone. only remembered by me.

Lets find a definition for "EXIST", we'll get to "Does Language shape our thoughts?" later

These are the enties into www.dictionary.com for "EXIST"

1. To have actual being; be real.

2. To have life; live: one of the worst actors that ever existed.

3. To live at a minimal level; subsist: barely enough income on which to exist.

4. To continue to be; persist: old customs that still exist in rural areas.

5. To be present under certain circumstances or in a specified place; occur: “Wealth and poverty exist in every demographic category” (Thomas G. Exter).




So.... Does God exist?




[Edited on 19-3-2005 by Herbie]
62 Ragtop Herbie with a little extra oomph.

Herbie 53 Bugs are not nearly enough

764 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#321846
to be real,
If we look in the dictionary,
Real is identified as
Heres the link

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11 entries found for real.
re·al1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl, rl)
adj.

Being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verifiable existence: real objects; a real illness.
True and actual; not imaginary, alleged, or ideal: real people, not ghosts; a film based on real life.
Of or founded on practical matters and concerns: a recent graduate experiencing the real world for the first time.
Genuine and authentic; not artificial or spurious: real mink; real humility.
Being no less than what is stated; worthy of the name: a real friend.
Free of pretense, falsehood, or affectation: tourists hoping for a real experience on the guided tour.
Not to be taken lightly; serious: in real trouble.
Philosophy. Existing objectively in the world regardless of subjectivity or conventions of thought or language.
Relating to, being, or having value reckoned by actual purchasing power: real income; real growth.
Physics. Of, relating to, or being an image formed by light rays that converge in space.
Mathematics. Of, relating to, or being a real number.
Law. Of or relating to stationary or fixed property, such as buildings or land.

adv. Informal
Very: I'm real sorry about that.

n.
A thing or whole having actual existence. Often used with the: theories beyond the realm of the real.
Mathematics. A real number.

Idiom:
for real Slang
Truly so in fact or actuality: “Is this place for real? A wolf in a... leisure suit and a cow in a print dress wait patiently on the couch in the lobby” (Teresa Carson).


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[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin relis, from Latin rs, thing. See r- in Indo-European Roots.]
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realness n.
Synonyms: real, 1actual, true, existent
These adjectives mean not being imaginary but having verifiable existence. Real implies authenticity, genuineness, or factuality: Don't lose the bracelet; it's made of real gold. She showed real sympathy for my predicament. Actual means existing and not merely potential or possible: “rocks, trees... the actual world” (Henry David Thoreau). True implies consistency with fact, reality, or actuality: “It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true” (Bertrand Russell). Existent applies to what has life or being: Much of the beluga caviar existent in the world is found near the Caspian Sea. See also synonyms at authentic




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[Portuguese, royal, real, from Latin rglis, royal. See real2.]

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

re·al2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-äl)
n. pl. re·als or re·al·es (-äls)
A silver coin formerly used in Spain and Latin America.


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[Spanish, royal, real, from Latin rglis, royal, from rx, rg-, king. See reg- in Indo-European Roots.]

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


real

In addition to the idiom beginning with real, also see for real; get real.



Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.
Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.


Main Entry: real
Function: adjective
Etymology: Anglo-French, concerning land, property, or things (rather than persons), from Middle French, from Medieval Latin and Late Latin; Medieval Latin realis relating to things (in law), from Late Latin, actual, from Latin res thing, fact
1 a : of or relating to real property <a real action> —see also real property at PROPERTY b in the civil law of Louisiana : attached to a thing rather than a person <a real obligation is transferred along with the thing to which it is attached> —see also REAL RIGHT —compare PERSONAL
2 : ACTUAL
3 : adjusted for inflation esp. to reflect actual purchasing power <real income>


Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


real

adj 1: being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verified existence; not illusory; "real objects"; "real people; not ghosts"; "a film based on real life"; "a real illness"; "real humility"; "Life is real! Life is earnest!"- Longfellow [syn: existent] [ant: unreal] 2: no less than what is stated; worthy of the name; "the real reason"; "real war"; "a real friend"; "a real woman"; "meat and potatoes--I call that a real meal"; "it's time he had a real job"; "it's no penny-ante job--he's making real money" [syn: real(a)] [ant: unreal] 3: being or reflecting the essential or genuine character of something; "her actual motive"; "a literal solitude like a desert"- G.K.Chesterton; "a genuine dilemma" [syn: actual, genuine, literal] 4: not synthetic or spurious; of real or natural origin; "real mink"; "true gold" [syn: true] 5: not to be taken lightly; "statistics demonstrate that poverty and unemployment are very real problems"; "to the man sleeping regularly in doorways homelessness is real" 6: possible to be treated as fact; "tangible evidence"; "his brief time as Prime Minister brought few real benefits to the poor" [syn: tangible] 7: being value measured in terms of purchasing power; "real prices"; "real income"; "real wages" [ant: nominal] 8: having substance or capable of being treated as fact; not imaginary; "the substantial world"; "a mere dream, neither substantial nor practical"; "most ponderous and substantial things"- Shakespeare [syn: substantial, material] [ant: insubstantial] 9: (of property) fixed or immovable; "real property consists of land and buildings; real estate" 10: coinciding with reality; "perceptual error...has a surprising resemblance to veridical perception"- F.A.Olafson [syn: veridical] 11: founded on practical matters; "a recent graduate experiencing the real world for the first time" n 1: any rational or irrational number [syn: real number] 2: an old small silver Spanish coin adv : used as intensifiers; `real' is sometimes used informally for `really'; `rattling' is informal; "she was very gifted"; "he played very well"; "a really enjoyable evening"; "I'm real sorry about it"; "a rattling good yarn" [syn: very, really, rattling]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


real



1. Not simulated. Often used as a specific antonym to
virtual in any of its jargon senses.

2. <mathematics> real number.

[Jargon File]

(1997-03-12)



Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2004 Denis Howe


real

adj. Not simulated. Often used as a specific antonym to
virtual in any of its jargon senses.



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To me, this says "NO"
God can not be described as "real" or "Actual" but can easily be described as imaginary.
With no more realness than just a thought.
there is no geographical location where god resides in any part of the universe.
you cannot touch God in the phycal world.
He is no more real than my thoughts about fruit.

Show me how Your God is "Real" in anything more than a thought!
with concise proof for everyone to see, so I can rest corrected.
For something to exist in someones mind does not make it real,
For something to exist in many minds, still does not make it real.
62 Ragtop Herbie with a little extra oomph.

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#321854
Herb,
you're probably not going to be satified with this answer, but here it is.

My God is real because he came to earth 2000 years ago as a man to prove it. That man is Jesus.

Here's the thing though, even the people who should have followed him, refused to acknowledge it. Even in the presence of unquestionable, amazing evidence, they refused to acknowledge it. And he knew they would.

But it got worse. They saw Jesus as too much of a threat to their power, so they set him up and had him killed for disagreeing with their fascist legalistic regime. Not becuase he was a political revolutionary, he wasn't.

You're probably not going to acknowledge this answer either, but that is up to you.


[Edited on 19/3/2005 by pete wood]
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Herbie 53 Bugs are not nearly enough

764 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#321876
Nothing really offends me about Jesus, he was probably a real cool dude,
He cant be linked to your god any more than Me saying I am the Son of your God.

Did Jesus really profess to being God or his son? or was that what he was refered to by others with their own agendas,
Why am I asking you anyway, No Offence, but you were not there, you merely spend a lot of time absorbing propaganda, and I seem to be spending a lot of time challenging the well entrenched brainwash that has been rife for thousands of years across the world.

There are none so blind as those who will not see, Jerimiah 20, {Maybe I could be wrong, I'm not well versed in the writings of the bible as It stopped making sense on the first page so I put it down.}
What a statement, it works in both directions, I am blind because I wont see faith and you are blind because you wont see reason.
Its a quote from the Bible, yes but that means nothing more than its a quote from the bible that relates well to human nature.

Sounds to me like things will always be the same, If I were to claim to be gods son or god, and took it seriously then I would probably suffer the same fate as Jesus, although today I would be pronounced dead only if I was actually dead, as medicne has come along way in 2000 years.

You already stepped over the "does god exist?"Question by making the assumption that he does a fact, by stating that He came to earth as Jesus,
I'll give you Jesus existed, but we still dont have any actual proof that God Exists.

---------------------------------------

As the redneck said to the reporter, "I know the King, an dats eem, Elvis was hiding in that there dumpster, I startled heem and he ran off into the woods"

the eyewitness account Doesnt make it true, regardless of what the Souther alabama man believed he saw.

even if he makes 6 trillion copies of his testamony, it still doesnt make it a fact.
62 Ragtop Herbie with a little extra oomph.

CB Hotdog The artist formerly known as cbhotdogd

267 posts · joined Oct 2004 ·

#321889
Oh My God

Lams Wolfsburg Wizard

536 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#321907
Anthony, I think a very important starting point here is whether you believe in the bible or not. If you think it is full of made up stories, then I guess we'll never get out of this thread.

The Bible is written by tens of different people. But somehow they all write about the same things. Just because Pete was there when Jesus was around, doesn't mean Jesus didn't exist! All you have to do is flip through the first 4 books in the New Testament and find that the 4 disciples all wrote about the same events.

Jesus claimed to be the son of God. He didn't just say it though, he performed numerous miracles in front of all these people. He also taught the people how to live. He was getting way too popular for the Pharisee's likings, that's why he was crucified. I somehow don't think you'll suffer the same fate as Jesus - I'm not saying you're not popular, I'm sure everybody knows you as the owner of the Love Bug, but you're not really going to get up the government's nerves are you?

So the bible said all that. If you believe that the bible is a lie, then it's going to be really difficult for me to find any facts or quotes!

man I missed this thread for 2 days and it's grown 2 pages. I havent done this much reading in months!
speeding is bad!
relax - god's in charge

Herbie 53 Bugs are not nearly enough

764 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#321975
you should investigate who put the bible together and why?

many scriptures were omited for one reason or another,

these scriptures didnt just come together by themselves now did they?

Most of what the bible says seems to hinge from the assumption of alledged facts, without taking these alegations as facts, you cant believe any of it.
62 Ragtop Herbie with a little extra oomph.

Starbug rustbag

2,408 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·

#321997
i think what we all really need to remember here is the bible is a historical document of some sort.

history = his story, the way that someone chose to portray a particular event or person.
thousands of people in america nowadays choose to portray bush as a wonderful and kind person... others dont take a bar of this... but whos story gets out to the most people? the one that sounds the best.

remember, history is a story... and unless you are right there, its a story. im sure you could make up a portrayal of events and it wouldnt match up with someone elses, but to another person it will.

im doing a psychology subject at uni this semester, and we have been exploring memory and eyewitness accounts and how people choose to portray what they see... language is a big cue, so is how someone feels at the time... do you see where im going with this? jesus disciples hung out with him and their stories are the way they are because of how they were influenced by both jesus and the world around them... they thought he was a cool guy, they wanted other people to think he was a cool guy... what better way to make everyone believe he was a cool guy than by claiming he was the son of god.

im sure some people feel the same way about dubyah right now...
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

Starbug rustbag

2,408 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·

#322001
to go into this further... just say we could RECORD on tape/dvd everything that ever happened anywhere.
the camera has a perfectly objective view of everything that goes on, this cannot be said for humans who need to relate everything they see to something internal/experienced to understand it.

so we take this objective history as captured by the camera, and we get a few people to watch it.

each person will see this objective history in a different way to eachother. sure, they will see the same thing, and agree on the body of the history that has been presented, but each person will see certain things differently (someone will see a dog chase a cat, someone will see a cat run across the road...)
each person will determine the validity of the history presented to them in accordance with their feelings and their mood, and what they consider is right and wrong.

just because a few people who were there consider that jesus was the son of god, does not make him the son of god.
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

E Officially Full-On Dubber

232 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#322023
I wish I had jumped on this bandwagon earlier, could have had a lot of input. Oh well, it was satan's wish for me not to.
Reality leaves alot to the Imagination

wezley Officially Full-On Dubber

305 posts · joined Oct 2004 ·

#322084
A camera is not an 'objective' tool, whilst I agree that people interpet information differently, don't forget that the person operating the camera also has a bias. Ie what to shoot, cropping, lighting etc..

This is why its such an effective tool to portray emotion, and a huge industry is built around that...

akean1 Remember To Love

1,088 posts · joined Dec 2004 ·

#322136
that site talks about type one and type two, but no mention of type 3's?:blush

Starbug rustbag

2,408 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·

#322191
wezley... i know when people use cameras theres no objectivity in it whatsoever... they are capturing their thoughts in an expressible form for the masses.

im talking about a camera as in a "totally automated surveillance camera" for every single square millimeter of this wide blue planet for every single direction... no-ones operating them, so no creative licence or fuzzy emotional shots or dark portrayals or whatnot.
just a plain capture of every single moment of time. basically a non-biased historical recording of what happens when it happens and how it happens. its almost big brother/1984-ish...

speaking of which, dont some facets of the bibles teachings, like a benevolent god which watches over everyone and makes sure that unmarried couples arent doing it, and that no-one is coveting their neighbours daughter or whatnot....
its a bit big brother you know.
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.

ColumBUS Hail To The Bus Driver!

3,601 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#322206
do i smell a LaVey satanist among our ranks E?

the manner in which the bible is written makes it very hard to believe. perhaps if it were more direct and less extravagant, contradictory, and long winded it could make more sense.

did you know a lot of christians have not read the bible? sure they have read passages and hymns but not the whole thing... perhaps if more people had read the bible along with other religious texts and 'bibles' ie the kouran. back to front, they may realise where things go wrong...

for example, the noahs ark story. there is A) no way of fitting 2 of every animal onto a boat of any kind, B) no way of knowing whether the whole world flooded or not.

old school translations go awry as well, as we mentioned a few pages ago the words virgin (mary) and the walked on/in water situation make things worse, people need to read fact before they put their life into fiction.

i have a couple of questions for the faithful... what is your position on the tourin shroud and the dead sea scrolls? do you believe they have religious signifigance? do you think the tourin shroud is authentic? what do you think lies encoded in the dead sea scrolls?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#322302
um Kikko,
the shroud of turin is a just bit of cloth, I don't think it means much at all. If it is Jesus shroud, it just proves to me that he isn't in it any more, ie he's not dead, otherwise he'd still be wearing it.

as for the dead sea scrolls, people have already translated them. they were written by a Jewish sect somewhere round the time Jesus was around, but nowhere near him. From what I know about them they haven't effected bible scholars much except they confirmed what people already though about some bits of the old testament.

the short answer is, not much significance really.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

E Officially Full-On Dubber

232 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#322400
No, satanism just makes more sense in the contemporary world than applied christianity. Christianity is not a full religion as a lot of its constituent parts were censored by the Catholic church a millenia ago. The Dead Sea Scrolls contain such information which isn't included in the Bible, Old or New.

To me the whole notion of faith is baffling, simply because I do not connect spiritually with any religious teachings. This doesn't mean I'm right though. However, because I think it is impossible for any objective truth to exist, I cannot fathom a universal creator or vast spiritual being, which in my mind would make such a statement false (i.e. there are universal truths).

Hey, a question for the Faithful, If God is without flaw, can he create something which is flawed (i.e. humanity). And don't say because we have free will, because If God exists then he created the laws to free will and they would be perfect, thus denying us any possibility of doing wrong.

I'm an atheist.
Reality leaves alot to the Imagination

eirecooled Officially Full-On Dubber

308 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#322447
how about some formulas to ponder:
faith + bible - evidence = god
science + knowledge - faith = no god
The common denominator in the equation is FAITH. this is a human trait that science can not find or answer. like the guy who is trapped by an earthquake under a building and has faith that he will be rescued is always going to last longer than the guy who thinks he is done for and gives up. now the person that has faith in god does not need to find god to live his life, but it focuses his beliefs to a end point eg: death. even if there is no god, his faith will stay with him till he draws his final breath. thus he lived his life the way he saw fit. there is no harm in beliving there is a god, the only problem is when his faith is used to make him a tool of another agenda that I have a problem with religion eg: interchurch fighting, religious crusades, fundalmentists, zealots. belief in god harms no one.
Problem: I got probed by Aliens last night...............and I think I like it!.........E.T call ME.

jenz58 Postal Menace

9,121 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#322461
A camera is not objectivbe at anytime....it is capturing movement...a moment....but we have no idea as to the content....it is a fragment of of one moment of may.....

As people have said...we all interpret an action, object or picture in so many different ways...everything has more than one interpretation...one may be more true than the others if more facts are known...

People have been chasing the truthy for thousands of years....there is no one truth....maybe you think you've found the truth but more questions come up and the search goes ..... people who believe they know the truth are fooling themselves...so much more to learn

Maybe we are all the sons and daughters of God....what is meant by SON?

If God is the creator of all then we are the sons and daughters of God as well...

Buddha and Mohamed are also sons of God....both with inspired teachings....all three can be seen as Avatars... a god made visibly present..."Avatara" which means "descent" and usually implies a deliberate descent into mortal realms for special purposes

....as with Christianity...Islam has been corrupted by political tyrants

Buddism also but is perhaps the most tolerant...I tend to lean that way...but don't claim a religion as I don't like being too fixed in my beliefs...I like to be open and find good in all...they have all had their purpose social for centuries...to create laws for a society to live by...health...birth control...economics...social mores/morals/ethics
"All you need is trust and a little bit of pixie dust!"

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=22473
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=56558#pid535643

...so I don't loose the links to my rides again hehehe

Jonno777 Slammed & Awesome Dubber

89 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#322469
Hey, a question for the Faithful, If God is without flaw, can he create something which is flawed (i.e. humanity). And don't say because we have free will, because If God exists then he created the laws to free will and they would be perfect, thus denying us any possibility of doing wrong.

I'm an atheist.
If God created the laws of "free will", they can be perfect and yet allow choice for evil or disobedience (Lucifer, the leading angel, wanted to be grater than God; Adam chose to eat of the forbidden fruit, etc). God's perfect laws can obviously allow tragic consequences.

To say God can't work with such a law is to make an assumption of what God's limitations are.

PS: Satanists must acknowledge God if they are sincere to understand where Satan came from. Satan himself acknowledges Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

[Edited on 20-3-2005 by Jonno777]

jenz58 Postal Menace

9,121 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#322498
We have two fallen Angels Lucifer and Ahiman

Lucifer tempts us to dwell in the past, or rather to allow the past to overshadow the present. To the extent that our thoughts are of regret of our past actions, or inaction, or a stubborn reluctance to deviate from past approaches, we are firmly in the clutches of Lucifer. When we dream of what might have been “If only I had …”, Lucifer laughs at how easy it is to keep us locked in a trance of self-pity and martyrdom

Ahriman’s focus is to tempt us to keep our consciousness in the future. He continually seeks to fill us with fear, anxiety, and worry about future events that demand our immediate attention. We don’t have time to meditate as we have too many worrying problems to attend to, or escape from – into our favorite addiction. If Ahriman can keep us worrying and fretting about our future, we never experience the present. In succumbing to the temptation of Ahriman, we let the future into the present too early. In doing so, we have again removed our ability to attune to

It's all about balance...remember the past and learn from what we've done...good and bad....Dream of a good future....because dreams keep us going ahead...but live fully in the now...

It's a hard call hey? :jesus
"All you need is trust and a little bit of pixie dust!"

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=22473
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=56558#pid535643

...so I don't loose the links to my rides again hehehe