This will be interesting, how many different ideas there are on running a type 1 engine stock or heavily modified engine.
Go for it guys
LOWBUG Insano Dub Head
738 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
Running in a new engine
Flying VW Wolfsburg Wizard
680 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I just rebuilt my Motor and I kept it below 3,000 Revs for about the first 200 miles or so, now I'm driving it like I normally would.
But I've only done short trips like 45 minutes or so.
I think Short trips with various Speeds are the best for running in.
But I've only done short trips like 45 minutes or so.
I think Short trips with various Speeds are the best for running in.
BAJA NOW FITTED WITH A FULL FLYING REBUILD
HotRodMatt If it\'s old or rare - cut it!
3,616 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Never ever lug it.
Lots of gear breaking.
Fresh is best! Run it like you normally would.
Lots of gear breaking.
Fresh is best! Run it like you normally would.
helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body
7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Varying loads and speeds without going over 3000 for the first couple of hundred is good. No lugging low revs up a hill either.
Motors are tight when new and run a little hotter an that is why they should not be over revved until they loosen just that little bit.
Motors are tight when new and run a little hotter an that is why they should not be over revved until they loosen just that little bit.
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Just drive it like you normally would but avoiding lugging and very high revving of the engine for about 800 K's
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
sax Insano Dub Head
846 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·
If you want a fast engine, run it in the same way you would drive it.
Dont be too gentle on it, redline is good especially after the first 40-50 miles.
Use cheap oil and change it every year or so, really helps.
If you run it in too gently, you will never make good power and will have a sluggish engine. Give it heaps and see the difference.
A whole lot of bullshit is written about engine run in proceedures,
you have just read some more of it!
:blah
Dont be too gentle on it, redline is good especially after the first 40-50 miles.
Use cheap oil and change it every year or so, really helps.
If you run it in too gently, you will never make good power and will have a sluggish engine. Give it heaps and see the difference.
A whole lot of bullshit is written about engine run in proceedures,
you have just read some more of it!
:blah
" You're not a team player "
Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile
1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
ahh but which post was it in ?
let sleeping dubs lie
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
as others have said.... No lugging about...
Rev it....
Driving normal with a full load is good for an engine...
makes it work....
But VW used to say....
Drive it out of the showroom and just keep going....
No need to run in a VW engine.... Just drive it....
Back in the early 50s... Most Cars had to do all sorts of things to run in their car... as No high Revs - 3000 was high back then!!
then they had to de coke the head etc....every so often..
NOT so with the Beetle....
Push the accelerator down once to bring in the auto choke and then turn the key... then drive away....
No warming the engine beforehand as with other cars back then....
VW s were a mile in front of other cars back in the 50s & 60s.
Lee
Rev it....
Driving normal with a full load is good for an engine...
makes it work....
But VW used to say....
Drive it out of the showroom and just keep going....
No need to run in a VW engine.... Just drive it....
Back in the early 50s... Most Cars had to do all sorts of things to run in their car... as No high Revs - 3000 was high back then!!
then they had to de coke the head etc....every so often..
NOT so with the Beetle....
Push the accelerator down once to bring in the auto choke and then turn the key... then drive away....
No warming the engine beforehand as with other cars back then....
VW s were a mile in front of other cars back in the 50s & 60s.
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
LOWBUG Insano Dub Head
738 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
This all sounds great, the non labouring I agree with. But what about modifide engines, or stock engines with newer components made from better metals, and then theres newer oils, do you use running in oils or not, sythetic normal?
Has anyone done these comparisons?
Has anyone done these comparisons?
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Seems some like to run in on plain mineral "running in" oils and put in their favorite brews later on.
I dun use any special running in oil. Just a mineral multigrade till the first change and whatever synthetic after that.
Im my race engine, I run them on synthetic from the start and dont really bother much with "running in". perhaps about 15 to 20 laps at slightly reduced revs. I just drive the arse off it after that!
Modified, stock, I treat them in the same way. Just drive them around like normal 'cept just keep the revs up, but not sky high.
Work the bastards! Playin around at low load/revs "can" result in glazed bores and bad ring seating.
L8tr
E
I dun use any special running in oil. Just a mineral multigrade till the first change and whatever synthetic after that.
Im my race engine, I run them on synthetic from the start and dont really bother much with "running in". perhaps about 15 to 20 laps at slightly reduced revs. I just drive the arse off it after that!
Modified, stock, I treat them in the same way. Just drive them around like normal 'cept just keep the revs up, but not sky high.
Work the bastards! Playin around at low load/revs "can" result in glazed bores and bad ring seating.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Courtesy of John at Aircooled.net (bit of a read but worth it):
Prepare to Run!
Install the engine into the vehicle or onto your engine stand, and get prepared to crank it over. REMOVE THE SPARK PLUGS AND OIL PRESSURE SWITCH. If you have a T-4, you can just remove the spin on oil filter. Next, crank the engine over until oil squirts out the oil pressure switch hole (or the oil filter bracket on the T-4). Re-install the oil pressure switch (or oil filter, which you have filled with oil), and connect the oil pressure switch wire. Crank until the light goes out then continue cranking for another 10 seconds or so. The oil system of the engine is now ready.
Set the ignition timing on the engine (you do know how to do this without running the engine, right?) to the proper setting for the distributor you are using, and install the spark plugs and plug wires. Install the pushrods if you have not done this yet, and adjust the valves to .008" (better loose until things settle in). Hydraulic lifter engines can adjust them to 1 ½ turns tighter than "zero" clearance. Make sure you have fuel pressure, and fire it up!
Running the Engine!
This next step is VERY IMPORTANT! Immediately bring the rpm's up to 2500 or higher. I vary the rpm's between 2500 and 4000, and do this for 15 minutes while keeping your eyes glued to the oil light! A second person back at the engine looking for oil or fuel leaks is a REALLY good idea too, since you don't want a fire or Valdez in your driveway! Most oil leaks will occur very soon after startup, if at all. Now, this is a nerve-racking experience to have the engine (it sure seems loud!) at these rpm levels when it's NEW, but if everything is OK, it's going to be fine. Remember that this engine is not even under a load, so it's not a big deal.
After the 15 minutes has elapsed, shut down the engine, and change the oil and adjust the valves. When you fire the engine up this time, you can let the engine idle, and make the needed carburetor adjustments. Drive the car easy, and change the oil and adjust the valves again after 100 miles or so.
Now that the "bearing break in" is done, you want to REALLY heat the engine up by driving it hard! This loads the rings and will break the pistons, cylinders, and rings in together. I have found that engines that are missing the flaps or thermostat assembly have a tough time seating the rings in, and the only cure for this (my experience) is to get the engine HOT (some of these engines "never" break in). Find a hill and drive full throttle up the thing a few times, in a gear that loads the engine down a bit. The loading and extra heat burns the glaze off the cylinders and allows everything to seat together well. I do not feel a longer "break in" period is needed (some say 10,000 miles) other than getting the rings seated, and this can be done in 500 miles.
Repeat the oil change/valve adjustment at 500 miles, and then resume your normal maintenance schedule (which hopefully does not mean oil changes every 15K miles, and/or valve adjustments once a cylinder or two goes dead at idle).
Now for some explanation!
The reason for the varying of engine rpm at initial start up is that the VW flat four engine does NOT adequately oil the camshaft lobes and lifter heads at rpms below 2500. The oil for the cam-lobes comes from oil sprayed off the connecting rods! If the engine is run below 2500 rpm for too long, the cam and lifters do NOT break in together properly (since they don't get enough oil) They get enough oil for running, but not break-in. In addition, you also run the risk (the higher valve spring pressures you run, the higher the risk) of one or more of the cam lobes getting scored and even going flat. Some engine builders (myself included) will run the engine on one set of valve springs for break in, and change to the competition springs (really heavy) after the cam and lifters are broken in. The cam and lifters must work together under a moderate load (valve springs), to allow the metal to work harden before extreme loads are placed on them. This oiling quirk is also the reason for cranking the engine for oil pressure with no valve spring pressure on the camshaft (no pushrods, remember?). With really heavy valve springs, just this cranking alone can damage the cam if racing spring pressure is present!
Maintenance Schedule
Schedule oil changes every 1000 miles (no filter), and every 3000-5000 if a filter is present. The oil strainer (stock VW) does NOT count as a filter, and in fact I remove it on engines that turn over 6000 RPMs! I have seen more engine failures caused by this strainer than I care to count (even on stock engines), so I leave it out and change oil religiously. One more thing! The new strainers that are available are of a much more corse "mesh" than the originals, so any "filtration" is minimal. The addition of a magnetic drain-plug is a good idea! I adjust valves to .006" every 3K miles (it does not take long, nor is it difficult) on old engines, and every 500 miles (until adjustments settle down) on newer engines. Keep a record of valve clearances at every valve adjustment; when a valve gets "abnormally tight" compared to the rest of them for 2-3 valve adjustments, it's a warning sign that the vavle is stretching and is ready to fail! Valve job time ( and replace exhaust valves)!
Prepare to Run!
Install the engine into the vehicle or onto your engine stand, and get prepared to crank it over. REMOVE THE SPARK PLUGS AND OIL PRESSURE SWITCH. If you have a T-4, you can just remove the spin on oil filter. Next, crank the engine over until oil squirts out the oil pressure switch hole (or the oil filter bracket on the T-4). Re-install the oil pressure switch (or oil filter, which you have filled with oil), and connect the oil pressure switch wire. Crank until the light goes out then continue cranking for another 10 seconds or so. The oil system of the engine is now ready.
Set the ignition timing on the engine (you do know how to do this without running the engine, right?) to the proper setting for the distributor you are using, and install the spark plugs and plug wires. Install the pushrods if you have not done this yet, and adjust the valves to .008" (better loose until things settle in). Hydraulic lifter engines can adjust them to 1 ½ turns tighter than "zero" clearance. Make sure you have fuel pressure, and fire it up!
Running the Engine!
This next step is VERY IMPORTANT! Immediately bring the rpm's up to 2500 or higher. I vary the rpm's between 2500 and 4000, and do this for 15 minutes while keeping your eyes glued to the oil light! A second person back at the engine looking for oil or fuel leaks is a REALLY good idea too, since you don't want a fire or Valdez in your driveway! Most oil leaks will occur very soon after startup, if at all. Now, this is a nerve-racking experience to have the engine (it sure seems loud!) at these rpm levels when it's NEW, but if everything is OK, it's going to be fine. Remember that this engine is not even under a load, so it's not a big deal.
After the 15 minutes has elapsed, shut down the engine, and change the oil and adjust the valves. When you fire the engine up this time, you can let the engine idle, and make the needed carburetor adjustments. Drive the car easy, and change the oil and adjust the valves again after 100 miles or so.
Now that the "bearing break in" is done, you want to REALLY heat the engine up by driving it hard! This loads the rings and will break the pistons, cylinders, and rings in together. I have found that engines that are missing the flaps or thermostat assembly have a tough time seating the rings in, and the only cure for this (my experience) is to get the engine HOT (some of these engines "never" break in). Find a hill and drive full throttle up the thing a few times, in a gear that loads the engine down a bit. The loading and extra heat burns the glaze off the cylinders and allows everything to seat together well. I do not feel a longer "break in" period is needed (some say 10,000 miles) other than getting the rings seated, and this can be done in 500 miles.
Repeat the oil change/valve adjustment at 500 miles, and then resume your normal maintenance schedule (which hopefully does not mean oil changes every 15K miles, and/or valve adjustments once a cylinder or two goes dead at idle).
Now for some explanation!
The reason for the varying of engine rpm at initial start up is that the VW flat four engine does NOT adequately oil the camshaft lobes and lifter heads at rpms below 2500. The oil for the cam-lobes comes from oil sprayed off the connecting rods! If the engine is run below 2500 rpm for too long, the cam and lifters do NOT break in together properly (since they don't get enough oil) They get enough oil for running, but not break-in. In addition, you also run the risk (the higher valve spring pressures you run, the higher the risk) of one or more of the cam lobes getting scored and even going flat. Some engine builders (myself included) will run the engine on one set of valve springs for break in, and change to the competition springs (really heavy) after the cam and lifters are broken in. The cam and lifters must work together under a moderate load (valve springs), to allow the metal to work harden before extreme loads are placed on them. This oiling quirk is also the reason for cranking the engine for oil pressure with no valve spring pressure on the camshaft (no pushrods, remember?). With really heavy valve springs, just this cranking alone can damage the cam if racing spring pressure is present!
Maintenance Schedule
Schedule oil changes every 1000 miles (no filter), and every 3000-5000 if a filter is present. The oil strainer (stock VW) does NOT count as a filter, and in fact I remove it on engines that turn over 6000 RPMs! I have seen more engine failures caused by this strainer than I care to count (even on stock engines), so I leave it out and change oil religiously. One more thing! The new strainers that are available are of a much more corse "mesh" than the originals, so any "filtration" is minimal. The addition of a magnetic drain-plug is a good idea! I adjust valves to .006" every 3K miles (it does not take long, nor is it difficult) on old engines, and every 500 miles (until adjustments settle down) on newer engines. Keep a record of valve clearances at every valve adjustment; when a valve gets "abnormally tight" compared to the rest of them for 2-3 valve adjustments, it's a warning sign that the vavle is stretching and is ready to fail! Valve job time ( and replace exhaust valves)!
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
It works for him.
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
Untermensch Commited Dubber
58 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
Just get in and drive it. Gently for a while then change oil check tappets and
go for it.
go for it.
Andy42 Insano Dub Head
709 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·
yep no need to do anything special just drive it as you would normally.
.
fullnoise Fahrvergnugen
964 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
I broke the cam in on my engine as described above at 7:30 pm on Easter Monday. I only got abused by one neighbour.
I've been told not to let the engine idle during the break-in period.
CYA CT
I've been told not to let the engine idle during the break-in period.
CYA CT
esratrams
Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l
12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
CT
you should know - drive it to Bathurst....... HARD!
you should know - drive it to Bathurst....... HARD!
Futue te ipsum!!!
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Easy! Live near the twisty Old Pacific Highway like I do! 😉
Pay your debts, CxxT
malcolm Insano Dub Head
812 posts · joined Nov 2004 ·
as helbus and others said but drop oil after start to check for metal
winerot Custom Title Time!
1,340 posts · joined Aug 2004 ·
i clocked mine the day after it was put in (i know silly silly)
the speedo is miles had the dail hit the 90mls plus.
that was three mths ago now & today went 700kl's,
never run so good.
the speedo is miles had the dail hit the 90mls plus.
that was three mths ago now & today went 700kl's,
never run so good.
frank2112 Officially Full-On Dubber
215 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·
The method we used to use for our Holdens is to run at fast idle (2000 rpm) for about 15 mins and then take it out on the road for a good flog for about half an hour. thats how I ran in the last six I built. After that it revved its head off and always felt really strong. For a VW I think the factory method would work. It depends if they run the engine on the bench before it goes into the car or not.
68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I have read where idling is bad for Your engine.....
Driving with a few passengers is good for Your engine....
So, all these low kilometer japanese engines have sometimes idled for most of their life.....
so a 40,000km engine has in reality done an extra 80,000kms of idling in Tokyo traffic....
Lee
Driving with a few passengers is good for Your engine....
So, all these low kilometer japanese engines have sometimes idled for most of their life.....
so a 40,000km engine has in reality done an extra 80,000kms of idling in Tokyo traffic....
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile
1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
bollocks.
let sleeping dubs lie
helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body
7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Personally I don't mind giving them a hard time. My supercharged 202 in my EH was in a burnout comp only 500 k's after rebuild. Those bores won't be glazed up I can tell you.
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Pay your debts, CxxT
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
This could be of some relevance - a fairly "controversial" break in procedure as claimed by the author - some quite good info here:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
sounds like an info-mercial which pi$$es you off quite a bit. I didn't see anything about cam break in....but nonetheless, just something else to consider
[Edited on 13-4-2005 by Dasdubber]
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
sounds like an info-mercial which pi$$es you off quite a bit. I didn't see anything about cam break in....but nonetheless, just something else to consider
[Edited on 13-4-2005 by Dasdubber]
Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus
5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Crap, sorry VWCOOL, I only just read the link you put above - beat me to it :o
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
No worries dude.. . I have a freshly-rebuilt 1916 sitting in my garage and I'm gonna run it in using this bloke's methods, I think...
Pay your debts, CxxT
Peter Leonard Moderator Volatile
1,456 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
of course there ARE fast-lapping rings.....
let sleeping dubs lie
tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!
1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 ·
Im sorry but I cannot see ANY logic in this little gem.
Give ME a break!
L8tr
E
They get enough oil for running but not for break in......Dasdubber wrote:If the engine is run below 2500 rpm for too long, the cam and lifters do NOT break in together properly (since they don't get enough oil) They get enough oil for running, but not break-in.
Give ME a break!
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome
5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·
Agreed. Dasdubber... sorry, but what you hae written makes no sense...
Pay your debts, CxxT