If someone adds a ragtop section to there vw(no matter how well it is put in) why are they not judged under the modified section and not the original/restoration section. Do not give me the ragtop is an option argument as it is not. It is a factory build number with a different "m" code. it is easy to police as they are built with a sr series number. it is a major modification and should be classifed as such. It devalues the "real "sunroof factory cars and creates an unfair advantage to a restored vehicle when compared to an original non sunroof model...........time to ponder:duh
Problem: I got probed by Aliens last night...............and I think I like it!.........E.T call ME.
....hmmmmm....I think you are talking about Bel here hey...I hope you're not infering that I'm cheating the system....I don't hide the fact that it was not originally in her....I enter her under her year
Her pop-outs windows are not original either...
No it doesn't create an unfair advantage....a nice dub is a nice dub....sunroof or not.....I just loved the idea of having a nice Goldie sun roof...was lucky enough to find one and have it expertly put in....
I don't make the rules....and there is always debate in these areas....I can enter her under modified if you want me too???
I've been to some shows where the club committee are judges and followed them around listening to comments - less than impressed I can tell you and thus stopped entering the show and shine coz of it.
Let me out, When I call my name
IGOR is ALIVE !!!! 😎
Gold Coast Club is about the best categorised I've seen - they go by categorised year so everyone who walks/drives in can vote on the car they like the best
Let me out, When I call my name
IGOR is ALIVE !!!! 😎
Some I won't attend anymore because the committee tell you what category you are in :jesus where other clubs class you differently :duh no wonder everyone get's confused.
Let me out, When I call my name
IGOR is ALIVE !!!! 😎
I think all results should be put on notice at shows too.... I've known of some cars getting a HEAPS lower point score and comming first in thier catagory when there where other cars that where obviously far superior and got a higher point score.
The only award that matters is People's Choice.
unless the judges publish a list of criteria, judging is a subjective thing. Its up to the persons tastes and likes etc. Iam not a big fan of resto's (i can see there point, but would prefer a nice modified car). others don't like the idea of a modified car and therefore this means IF i was to judge a car, i would probably mark a modified car higher.
Most clubs try and do the best they can for judging, and i like teh goldcoast way, as that way the public majority should work. but even with a list of criteria, how do you judge it, is a car with a perfect paint job but a 50c peice of rust better than a car with no rust and slight orange peel..... etc etc etc
We are not playing for sheep stations? its a chance for every one to get together, talk and look at each others cars.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
HRM... I agree in a way... but if the show has alot of non VW people crusing thru they tend to like the shiniest thing there and that's not always the best.
As HotRodMatt said, the day I won people's choice was the day I stopped entering car shows...the only award worth winning, devoid of politics and all the associated bull@hit!
....I enter just because I'm there...Bel always gets entered even before her resto....it's about joining the rest of your fellow dubbers....talking about your ride if they ask....meeting up and sharing a common interest
My biggest buzz at Easter was on the road....the journey there and home but it was so cool winning the trophies we did....while with me Bel will not go on club rego...she is to be driven and enjoyed.....and I do
I restored her to save her....and I did things such as the rag top for my enjoyment when I drive her....so nice to have that roof open:kiss
There are some very nice rides being restored at the moment...so next year it's someone elses turn for sure....
From being on a club committee this year I know they are always asking questions about how to improve judging ...or adding a new category.....not sure how these issues will ever be fully resolved...there will always be some one not happy with the results
I hope it's not refering to Bel, Jen. That your rag is a golde therefore means to me that all you've don't is added a piece of original equipment to your car....it is not after market. Therefore your car remains unmodified.
Where's Birch to answer this one?
....I don't know.....the description made me think it was about Bel...or at least using her as an example.....I've not had anyone, at the 3 shows she's been in, question the category I enter her under...
BUT this is what the forum is about...being able to debate things....someone has expressed an opinion....
What about two pack paint, radial tyres, laminated windscreens, silicon brake fluid, synthetic oils.
The only shows I enter in as judged (if there is a choice) is the ones where it is peer judging.
I was not specifying any single vehicle I was opening a debate on what classes VW's should be judged under and where the line should be drawn.
I had the pleasure of seeing Bel at the Nationals and a lot of other beautiful VW's and I think that the judges should be comparing apples to apples and making sure the categories achieve this.
Adding a sunroof is not the same as adding a set of pop-outs, it is a cut and shut job no different to a chop top or a sardine job as far as i am concerned. It is changing a base model to a more exclusive model.
VW have a very specific accessories brochure that covers any add ons and the sunroof is a specific model not an option.
Judging is always going to be difficult and yes politics will always be added to the mix. Peoples choice is the Holy Grail for most enthusists I am sure.
Problem: I got probed by Aliens last night...............and I think I like it!.........E.T call ME.
Colour change is not going to match up with the production plate either
....how pure can we make each category....it's a mine field...
Pop-outs should be on the VIN number if they came in the car??...I'd have to consult my books on that and don't have the time right now...
[Edited on 28-4-2005 by jenz58]
hey way cool...if its ppls choice...i'm sure edith has a chance then...
i just gotta bribe like ...how many ppl???...how much do they want???
😀
but my car didnt even cost me that much...:jesus
back to the drawing board...rigging the votes again......anyoen know how i do that and NOT get caught??? :duh
lol
only kidding ppls.... im only going to meet u all...
dubless. 🥲
🥷 And who the helled parked the Mitsubishi "Prancer" under my house??? 🥷
I don't really see adding a Golde ragtop as exactly the same as a sardine roof. Completely different league. The only way you could pick them apart is if you stripped the roof back to bare metal or if you pulled apart the headliner (if there was no effort made to hide it on the underside)
I think it's getting a little anal, like helbus said. They didnt have 2 pack paint, radial tyres, CD players, TMI repro interiors etc from the factory either. At least the Golde roof was a factory option. You could start getting really anal and picking out brazilian/mexican bits, spade terminals instead of screw terminals. It just gets stupid.
Adding a golde roof does not make any decrease in value IMO. As it had to be taken from another car which had it originally fitted (and you would have to be able to tell it was added as well). There is no increase in golde ragtops as there are no reproductions.
Jon
eirecooled wrote:If someone adds a ragtop section to there vw(no matter how well it is put in) why are they not judged under the modified section and not the original/restoration section. Do not give me the ragtop is an option argument as it is not. It is a factory build number with a different "m" code. it is easy to police as they are built with a sr series number. it is a major modification and should be classifed as such. It devalues the "real "sunroof factory cars and creates an unfair advantage to a restored vehicle when compared to an original non sunroof model...........time to ponder:duh
It does't get any more anal than that, What a dumb thing to say, you are the reason people stay away from cars shows with nice cars, wake up!
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
ah...... the anal retentive response. I was waiting for this. I was at the nationals and there was a lot of cars in the car park that would have given a few of the show cars a run for there money. why did they not enter? maybe just, maybe they did not feel the the playing field was level! how many trophies are in your cupboard Mr Becker?
I was only asking a question not attacking anyone. get off your high and mighty position.
Problem: I got probed by Aliens last night...............and I think I like it!.........E.T call ME.
eirecooled wrote:ah...... the anal retentive response. I was waiting for this. I was at the nationals and there was a lot of cars in the car park that would have given a few of the show cars a run for there money. why did they not enter? maybe just, maybe they did not feel the the playing field was level! how many trophies are in your cupboard Mr Becker?
I was only asking a question not attacking anyone. get off your high and mighty position.
I have a few Racing trophys, I don't enter cars shows usually, I am happy to display cars, None of my cars are show quality cars anyhow, I just feel that competitive judging brings out the worst in people, and would rather not be involved, there is always someone not happy with the results.
Your comment about putting in a factory sunroof is a modification and should be judged in modified section just rubbed the wrong way, where would you stop? radial tyres, 10 points off!!, 12volt conversion another 10, oh, I don't think that key ring is original!!, seat belts?,white wall tyres?, floor mats?, it's all too hard.
Peoples choice is best.
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
Hi
I’ve judged at many VW shows and I think that in the main judges try to get it right. Unless you’ve judged at a car show you can’t begin to know how hard it is to get it right, the only way that you could get it absolutely 100% correct would be to line-up every car according to category entered and do a comparison of every cars good and bad points and continually cross reference the results. I don’t believe that any entrants would want to wait a few days for results from all categories to be finalised or want to pay $100s for the judging process.
In the end its someone’s opinion on the day, if you don’t like it run your own car show or buy your own trophy and award it to your self.
I agree about people choice award as long as know one can slew the results by hassling people to vote for a particular car.
And I thought dog shows were bitchy.
eirecooled, wherer would you find this M code on the car?
Steve
lost wrote:from my experience it is a dark science this car judging. The most important qualification seems to be that one has to be a member of the club hosting the event. They seem to make up their own rules as they go along and "conflict of interest" is a foreign concept to them.
I must say that at the VWDCQ Action day, my bus won
best original restored kombi and
Presidents Choice
Although I am not a member of that club.
Great day by the way
Roy
.....you're just a plain whinger....you would gripe no matter the result by the sounds of it.....an anal retentive...opinionated person who makes excuses for not entering their own car and complains
Yes there are many nice rides out in the car parks at these shows...maybe they just love their rides and not interested in club participation or entering shows....not because they hate the politics of clubs or clubs...maybe just that they have other more important interests.....people do sometimes make these sorts of choices....
Also some leave their rides in the carpark...one because they are a nice ride and two they can pick up a trophy for' best in carpark'...
Honestly we could to and fro all night couldn't we :duh
TYP-114 wrote:Oh....one other point.....A judge should not have their car entered in the show.....how can that car be judged fairly???? At some shows, the judge will not judge his own car, but rather ask another judge to judge his car. His car is then judged on a different scale than all the other cars were judged by....
I WILL BE THE JUDGE AT THE ' BLAST FROM THE PAST' SHOW TO BE HELD THIS SUNDAY 1ST MAY AT BERRY . IT WOULDN'T BE RIGHT FOR ME TO JUDGE MY OWN CABRIO AS I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH EFFORT HAS BEEN PUT INTO ITS REBUILD . 'MANGO DREAM' WILL BE ON DISPLAY AND ONLY BE JUDGED BY THE PUBLIC IN PEOPLES CHOICE .
HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE !!
Team
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
eirecooled
I dont think you can comment of this subject ( or anyone ) untill you have either organise, run a car show or actually been a Judge.
You welcome to Judge at next years VW Nationals Just let me know.
I enter my car in the show VW Nats and others ..... and have nuthing to do with the judging ... apart from counting the Peoples choice vote and trying to organise the actual people doin the job.
Oh and my 56 Oval and 65 Sea Blue are FACTORY origional sunroofs...
4 got to say
This subject could be talked about till your Old n weary.... and as Steve said its
the Judges opionion on the day
By the way..what is it with people bringing the same car year after year...the result's become so boring and predictable, give the newbies a chance!
SPRINTSTAR wrote:By the way..what is it with people bringing the same car year after year...the result's become so boring and predictable, give the newbies a chance!
probably because most people drive the cars that they take to the shows..... do you think people should change their car each year? or modify it each year?
see.... air and water do mix 😉
1974 1300
1997 MK3 Golf GL
2003 NB Cabrio
2012 Golf VI GTI
2014 Audi A4 Quattro
ohoh...can i have a different one each year???
pls pls pls pls...
dubless. 🥲
🥷 And who the helled parked the Mitsubishi "Prancer" under my house??? 🥷
