wnat some tech advice.
who runs an external oil cooler on an upright motor?
what size motor you got?
how is it connecting to your motor?
do you run a thermo fan or jsut straight cooler?
how much have you found it effective?
Simply Cruzin'...
If you don't need one, don't fit one. They are just another bit that can go wrong
Pay your debts, CxxT
you know thats right.
hmmm maybe let me think...
yeah, thats right... I'M NOT RUNNING STOCK!
why would you ask if you were stock ?dont need it, do they.
anybody else?
Simply Cruzin'...
twoguns wrote:you know thats right.
hmmm maybe let me think...
yeah, thats right... I'M NOT RUNNING STOCK!
why would you ask if you were stock ?dont need it, do they.
anybody else?
Huh?
Pay your debts, CxxT
easy cool. go back and look at my questions and then evaluate your answer... 😵
Simply Cruzin'...
Err... I didn't ask if you were stock. I said if you don't need one don't fit one - stock or not. And if you really need one, why ask?!
Just trying to find out your needs, I guess
Maybe I should have said: How do you know you need a cooler?nn[ Edited on 7-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
sorry mate, but i am thinking it must be a bit late for you.😉
no you didnt ask if i was stock, you didnt ask if i wasnt. and we both really know that a stock motor and set up shouldnt need additional cooling, so therefor why would i be asking the questions if i was stock? 🙅
maybe you jsut ran off the response previous.
i am asking who has fitted an external cooler on an upright engine? ie a T1.
what size? obviously it wouldnt be 1600. maybe 1776, 1835, 1916 or even a 2110
what type? how effective.
i know i need a cooler ( or find a solution to remain cooler) as i am running a bigger motor in a 62 split, designed to run a pissie little 1200. but it dont no more. and if i am giving it heaps it gets hot. i am looking for details...nn[ Edited on 7/7/2005 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...
Late? Er, no
What temps are you seeing?
I've never played with Kombi cooling myself, but I've known of a few with big VW donks that are happy at 100+ all day, even with a trailer on. All engine seals etc in place? No power pulleys... must have richer-than-Beetle jetting... Standard gearing... if you have a T1 engine a T4 cooler might help...
Pay your debts, CxxT
I would only go external oil cooler after i knew that the stock cooling system was PERFECT. It is alot more reliable and safer not having an external oil cooler, if a hose pops off then there goes ya engine... Been heaps of posts on what you can do to make ya engine run cooler. But if your pushing it too hard with too much grunt then maybe its what you should do....
I run a warmed over 1776, with about 9:1 compression. larger cam, and twin dells. i did fit an external oil cooler, (tapped into the case). the engine runs very cool around town in winter (i cover the cooler to make the engine hotter). On teh track in summer it runs just on 105 degree's after about 5mins and stays there........
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
thanks bix...
Simply Cruzin'...
I did the Kombi cooler on my 1835 & my father had one on his 1776. We didn't notice any difference on the street or track , in either summer or winter. It was alot of effort modifying the fanhousings for no result. I then eventually bought a RX7 oil cooler & mounted it longways above the gearbox. I then went overboard & mounted 2 Kombi demister fans sucking air through the cooler. I also have some ducting up the cooler. I had to take the ducts off in the winter as the oil couldn't get hot enough. In the summer it would only get to 90d sitting on 120kph on the Freeway, & I could run the car on the track flat out for 15 minutes without it going over 100d, sometimes less & the motor grew to 2275cc. I didn't tap the case for the cooler, instead i used an inlet / oulet oil pump cover. I was told that these were no good but I had in on my car for about 4 years. I also covered the oil lines with Thermo tech oil & petrol line wrap as the lines ran close to the exhaust.
Hope this helps u.
regards
Jak
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/126813.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/126815.jpgnn[ Edited on 8-7-2005 by Jak Rizzo ]
thats what i was think Jak. thanks for the feed back
Simply Cruzin'...
this pump i was thinking...
thanksnn[ Edited on 8/7/2005 by twoguns ]
Simply Cruzin'...
External oil coolers are a must if using a good FAT MOTOR. oil coolers preserve the oil longer so we are not burning the solids all goodness from the oil.If burning the oil to quick oil becomes watery ....eg.tapping noises,moving parts begin to wear.External oil coolers are also great holding that little more fresh oil which brings back threw the motor.(Stock no need...Performance a must)................Twoguns thers some pics from Valla car show of my Orange Racecar that will give you some idea of Aircraft fittings so you wont loose a oil line.............Oil Coolers are made for a reason & not for looks.:thumbJVLRacing
jvl... you got a link at all.
Simply Cruzin'...
twoguns wrote:jvl... you got a link at all.
Give me your email,ill send some pics (u2u me)JVLRacing
Jak Rizzo wrote:I did the Kombi cooler on my 1835 & my father had one on his 1776. We didn't notice any difference on the street or track , in either summer or winter. It was alot of effort modifying the fanhousings for no result. I then eventually bought a RX7 oil cooler & mounted it longways above the gearbox. I then went overboard & mounted 2 Kombi demister fans sucking air through the cooler. I also have some ducting up the cooler. I had to take the ducts off in the winter as the oil couldn't get hot enough. In the summer it would only get to 90d sitting on 120kph on the Freeway, & I could run the car on the track flat out for 15 minutes without it going over 100d, sometimes less & the motor grew to 2275cc. I didn't tap the case for the cooler, instead i used an inlet / oulet oil pump cover. I was told that these were no good but I had in on my car for about 4 years. I also covered the oil lines with Thermo tech oil & petrol line wrap as the lines ran close to the exhaust.
Hope this helps u.
regards
Jak
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/126813.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/126815.jpgnn[ Edited on 8-7-2005 by Jak Rizzo ]
Yep, disregarding the effort involved in fitting it, the Typ4 cooler conversion seems to be loved by some and not by others: Extra air 'bleed' from the fan housing via the oil cooler allows better cooling via the oil cooler, but - to put it simply - leaves less air available to cool the engine. An external oil cooler - if testing has shown you need it - gets around this by placing the heat 'load' of the cooler outside the standard cooling system. Increasing the fan speed can increase the heat shedding ability of the 'stock' system.
Twoguns, I can now assume you already know this, but the reason I asked about gearing is due to the fact that taller gearing (as with IRS box conversions etc in Kombis) spins the cooling fan slower for a certain road speed
Pay your debts, CxxT
i dont understand the theory with an irs box and a T1 modified engine. they would be the exact same ratio option, paired together whether in a kombi or a beetle?? after all it is a beetle box and a beetle engine, no?
Simply Cruzin'...
twoguns wrote:i dont understand the theory with an irs box and a T1 modified engine. they would be the exact same ratio option, paired together whether in a kombi or a beetle?? after all it is a beetle box and a beetle engine, no?
Yes, but which one is working harder?
😉Pay your debts, CxxT
thats true.
Simply Cruzin'...
Two guns, lets make the decision a little simpler. What is your oil temp running at now?, is it for extended periods of time?. If it's getting over 100d for long periods of time then regardless of what external cooler u use & where u place it the oil will run cooler, not only are u allowing the engine oil to have a an 'escape' from the enigne for a while, u will increase the capacity. My RX7 oil cooler & the associatted lines gave me another litre of oil, that along with the Pobjoy sump which holds another cup full the system worked great. Get one of those oil pumps, get an oil cooler & u will be sweet.
Good luck mate.
regards
Jak
when i was running my 1835 in the uk i had a few heat problems and ended up fitting a 15 band pass cooler mounted up under the passanger side guard. From that moment on i had no heat problems even with the long drives at high speeds. in fitting a cooler u have more oil to run around the engine which basic logic states must be a better thing as the oil plays a big part in the cooling of aircooled dubs..... I also had a 1776 in my kombi and i had a cooler with thermo fan mounted on the left hand side and that worked a treat as i would do 300+ miles each weekend to go surfing......
All depending on your engine size it will depend if a cooler is needed and what size... personaly i think and have seen the benafits of having one so i will be fitting one to my street car when i finish it.....
steff......nn[ Edited on 8-7-2005 by DubCrazy ]
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
On my F-Vee, I run an external cooler plumbed after the full flow filter and remove the stock cooler altogether to prevent shrouding of the airflow on that side of the engine.
The engine will top 110 deg C on a warm day after 10 laps of Baskerville with the engine belly shroud/fairing (whatever) on, but the temp is held around 85 to 90 with the external cooler fitted.
To get past the drama of too-cooled oil in winter here in Tassie, I simply use an oil cooler thermostat.
No pissfarting around with tape, cardboard or whatever else used to cover 'coolers.
I find it preposterous that some would consider an external oil cooler "something else to go wrong"
Please!
l8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
tassupervee wrote:On my F-Vee, I run an external cooler plumbed after the full flow filter and remove the stock cooler altogether to prevent shrouding of the airflow on that side of the engine.
The engine will top 110 deg C on a warm day after 10 laps of Baskerville with the engine belly shroud/fairing (whatever) on, but the temp is held around 85 to 90 with the external cooler fitted.
To get past the drama of too-cooled oil in winter here in Tassie, I simply use an oil cooler thermostat.
No pissfarting around with tape, cardboard or whatever else used to cover 'coolers.
I find it preposterous that some would consider an external oil cooler "something else to go wrong"
Please!
l8tr
E
[Well said Tass," something else to go wrong":oJVLRacing
a thermostat? are u nuts Tass, thats another thing that could go wrong, your a brave man...........
regards
Jak
What's the flaw with an oil thermostat?. Do they fail?, and if so do they fail in the open or closed position?
well tahts the thought i am wondering E. do i do awway witht he modified cooler i have on the shroud, and go a full external unit. it jsut seems in my lowered split that i can not keep it running hard on the freeway. i can fly along and jsut watch the temp slowly rise, till i am approaching 120, then thats it i slow to about 90 and cruise. on a nice cold day or cool evening or then i can sit at 130 odd and the temp wont break 105.
Simply Cruzin'...
At 100km+ Run an external cooler with thermo fan with thermo switch. keep the cooler as close to the engine as sensible ie in the LH battery tray posi. have the system in an open circuit from oil pump to cooler to gallery. maintain your stock cooler for relief valve issues. Consider oil thermos switch pre cooler/filter.ala bernie bergman.
Or go cheaper 'oldskool' and run an adapter from upright cooler posi to cooler/fan set up.
And a flat styled oil sump extender.
Ever considered mounting an oil pressure switch on the cooler with a secondary warning light in the cockpit. It would have to give some peice of mind about a costly oil slick due to a failed connection.. Just a suggestion.
Jak Rizzo wrote:a thermostat? are u nuts Tass, thats another thing that could go wrong, your a brave man...........
regards
Jak
Jak, you are a bonehead!!!!!:thumb
Barenyisbeetle, thermostat failures?
The oil thermostats cannot block oil flow in event of a failure.
They simply direct oil one way or the other in whatever position poppet was at the time of failure.
Its worth knowing that more engine abuse goes on with oil not hot enough than running too hot.
Do some research.
L8tr
Enn[ Edited on 9/7/05 by tassupervee ]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
