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Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#388186
I've just spoken to my personal Electrical Engineer to confirm that I don't have my air inlet temp hooked up Pete. I'm going to get a kit from Jaycar instead.
Did u get the microtech dash as well?
regards
Jak

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#388408
Isn't the TD05 supposed to loose it's efficiency after 18-19psi max? or do u have something different now?
Jak

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#388427
Jiggity Jak is correct. There is no intake temp sender..I have one as the computer can then adjust for air density and thus adjust fuel ratios accordingly. Mine is mounted next to the blow off valve on the intercooler.

Matt

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#388549
None on the one I've just done... MAF doesn't need air temp correction... Ahh, the beauty of standard OE management systems!
Pay your debts, CxxT

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#388565
VWCOOL wrote:None on the one I've just done... MAF doesn't need air temp correction... Ahh, the beauty of standard OE management systems!
Or is that a limitation?

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#388593
Nah, temp sensors are only really required for the less -sophisticated speed/density systems. Mass airflow injection systems (with an airflow meter) 'weigh' the air rather than look at volume... if it's hot it weighs less... simple!
Some cars have both... eg Holden V8s
Pay your debts, CxxT

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#388669
Thanks Jak, I hope its OK, um, I now have a nice shinny gearbox to go with my shinny STI. Standard ECUs are fine in standard cars, they are also fine if you never wish to have the car tuned correctly, not just a mass prodution tune which is what a stock ECU has, as we are using these motors in a way different to what the maker intended an aftermarket ECU is a good choice.

Steve


Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#388672
It's so big & shiny..........can I have the old L-Bug gearbox?
Mines gotta go soon, surely?
regards
Jak

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#388764
Hi

The dirty old box is one I found on a clean up, its from a Type 3 with twin side plates.

Steve

seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#388779
steve do you have a run down on this new gear box please , I going this way soon
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#388782
Hi

Its a G50 from a 1988 911.

G50 ratios kph
25.315 tyre 3.44 final drive
3.5 2.058 1.409 1.074 .861
1800 18.12 30.84 45.04 59.10 73.72
2000 20.15 34.26 50.05 65.67 81.91
2200 22.16 37.69 55.06 72.22 90.09
2400 24.18 41.11 60.06 78.79 98.29
2600 26.19 44.54 65.06 53.02 106.48
2800 28.20 47.97 70.06 91.93 114.68
3000 30.21 51.40 75.07 98.49 122.85
3200 32.23 54.83 80.08 105.06 131.04
3400 34.26 59.42 85.08 111.63 139.24
3600 36.27 61.67 90.09 118.19 147.44
3800 38.28 65.10 96.11 124.75 155.62
4000 40.29 68.53 100.10 131.32 163.81
4200 42.31 71.96 105.11 137.89 172.01
4400 44.32 75.39 110.10 144.46 180.20
4600 46.35 78.80 115.11 151.03 188.38
4800 48.36 82.23 120.12 157.60 196.42
5000 50.37 85.66 125.12 164.15 204.77
5200 51.52 89.04 130.13 170.72 212.97
5400 54.40 92.52 135.14 177.29 221.14
5600 56.41 95.95 140.15 183.86 229.34
5800 58.42 99.38 145.15 190.43 237.53
6000 60.45 102.79 150.16 196.99 245.73KPH

jvl054 Wolfsburg Wizard

403 posts · joined May 2005 ·

#388786
1303Steve wrote:Hi

Its a G50 from a 1988 911.

G50 ratios kph
25.315 tyre 3.44 final drive
3.5 2.058 1.409 1.074 .861
1800 18.12 30.84 45.04 59.10 73.72
2000 20.15 34.26 50.05 65.67 81.91
2200 22.16 37.69 55.06 72.22 90.09
2400 24.18 41.11 60.06 78.79 98.29
2600 26.19 44.54 65.06 53.02 106.48
2800 28.20 47.97 70.06 91.93 114.68
3000 30.21 51.40 75.07 98.49 122.85
3200 32.23 54.83 80.08 105.06 131.04
3400 34.26 59.42 85.08 111.63 139.24
3600 36.27 61.67 90.09 118.19 147.44
3800 38.28 65.10 96.11 124.75 155.62
4000 40.29 68.53 100.10 131.32 163.81
4200 42.31 71.96 105.11 137.89 172.01
4400 44.32 75.39 110.10 144.46 180.20
4600 46.35 78.80 115.11 151.03 188.38
4800 48.36 82.23 120.12 157.60 196.42
5000 50.37 85.66 125.12 164.15 204.77
5200 51.52 89.04 130.13 170.72 212.97
5400 54.40 92.52 135.14 177.29 221.14
5600 56.41 95.95 140.15 183.86 229.34
5800 58.42 99.38 145.15 190.43 237.53
6000 60.45 102.79 150.16 196.99 245.73KPH
Hi Steve,very nice.Ive just found 2 G50s advertised in a mag...waiting on a price YEH YEH:thumb.JVLRacing

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#388905
Jak Rizzo wrote:U should be very worried Stevie, with an aftermarket engine management system on your shiny STI engine, u have no hope in hell of doing hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles.
I'm certainly concerned!
Jak
PS nice gearbox!
Jak, I might not completely agree with some of what Steve has just said (re: use of OE management systems) but I think Steve is a bit smarter than the average bear
If it's set up properly there shouldn't be a problem. The key words are... set-up.
A bit off topic now, but... Why turn your back on OE knowledge if you don't have to? For the conversion I've just done, I let Subaru do all the hard work, research and dyno testing (although I think the PCM I used has been tweaked for more boost) I'm not a compulsive fiddler so I don't need to be able to acess fuel and spark while sitting the the lights. I'bve done the same with HOlden etc conversions in the past. Many people, like me, are happy to use a reliable factory tune with alls its closed-loop lean cruise, decel fuel cut-off, high stress engine preservation, idle compensation etc and leave it that way.

There seems to be a lot of mis-information dating waaay back to the 1980s relating to aftermarket management system. Many people think they MUST use aftermarket ECU to get a retrotech engine transplant running. But these days, in mamy cases, aftermarket management simply isn't required, certainly isn't as adaptive or 'smart' as OE, is technically illegal for street rego in most states of Australia and speaking generally, can often cause more expense with the requirement for new sensors etc etc and considerable dyno time. Of course they can be easily tuned with just a lap-top so have thier applications and uses.

The car I have been working on (WRX transplant) is a 100 percent certifiable conversion that started first turn of the key and after a little 'relearn time", drives just like every other WRX I've ever been in. It hasn't been a problem-free process but the probelms we've had haven't been related to the transplant - simply age etc of componenets. They certainly pale into insignificance when compared the dramas with aftermarket some on here seem to be having with two and more ECUs being employed for a no-result after months or years of weekend hacking with wiring and laptops and batteries and questions.

I spent maybe one hour connecting around 12 wires... The conversion took 2.5 days, drive in, drive out. Our total tuning effort and dyno time at $150/hour was Zip, yadda, nuffink..

No time off the road or away from work, extra expense chasing parts or complexity to get a possibly - probably - inferior result

Oh yeah.. Steve, nice box!

:thumb


nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#388931
VWCOOL wrote:is technically illegal for street rego in most states of Australia...
Yes, that is the main problem. Technically if you do an engine conversion you must all retain all the original emission control equipment. Most if not all states class the computer as part of the emissions control equipment, and therefore you can't change it on a conversion or a new car. The only way you can legally do it is by having the vehicle emissions tested again with the new computer, but that is currently expensive.

I'm running the factory ECU that my V6 came with and it works wonderfully well.

Steve, I put your porsche ratios into the Excel Dyno I made. Your first to second gear jump is the biggest. Thought you might be interested in the chart of it.

1 attachment · Log in to view

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#388971
VWCOOL wrote:
Jak Rizzo wrote:U should be very worried Stevie, with an aftermarket engine management system on your shiny STI engine, u have no hope in hell of doing hundreds of thousands of trouble free miles.
I'm certainly concerned!
Jak
PS nice gearbox!
Jak, I might not completely agree with some of what Steve has just said (re: use of OE management systems) but I think Steve is a bit smarter than the average bear
If it's set up properly there shouldn't be a problem. The key words are... set-up.
A bit off topic now, but... Why turn your back on OE knowledge if you don't have to? For the conversion I've just done, I let Subaru do all the hard work, research and dyno testing (although I think the PCM I used has been tweaked for more boost) I'm not a compulsive fiddler so I don't need to be able to acess fuel and spark while sitting the the lights. I'bve done the same with HOlden etc conversions in the past. Many people, like me, are happy to use a reliable factory tune with alls its closed-loop lean cruise, decel fuel cut-off, high stress engine preservation, idle compensation etc and leave it that way.

There seems to be a lot of mis-information dating waaay back to the 1980s relating to aftermarket management system. Many people think they MUST use aftermarket ECU to get a retrotech engine transplant running. But these days, in mamy cases, aftermarket management simply isn't required, certainly isn't as adaptive or 'smart' as OE, is technically illegal for street rego in most states of Australia and speaking generally, can often cause more expense with the requirement for new sensors etc etc and considerable dyno time. Of course they can be easily tuned with just a lap-top so have thier applications and uses.

The car I have been working on (WRX transplant) is a 100 percent certifiable conversion that started first turn of the key and after a little 'relearn time", drives just like every other WRX I've ever been in. It hasn't been a problem-free process but the probelms we've had haven't been related to the transplant - simply age etc of componenets. They certainly pale into insignificance when compared the dramas with aftermarket some on here seem to be having with two and more ECUs being employed for a no-result after months or years of weekend hacking with wiring and laptops and batteries and questions.

I spent maybe one hour connecting around 12 wires... The conversion took 2.5 days, drive in, drive out. Our total tuning effort and dyno time at $150/hour was Zip, yadda, nuffink..

No time off the road or away from work, extra expense chasing parts or complexity to get a possibly - probably - inferior result

Oh yeah.. Steve, nice box!

:thumb


nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by VWCOOL ]
& why are u telling me this?..

& your whole conversion took 2.5 days, holy crap! I thought my 5 weeks was quick!
u da man Glen:thumb
regards
Jak
nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by Jak Rizzo ]

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#388980
I think there are times when a factory ECU simply cannot produce the outcome required.

A good example is my 1964 EH holden which has factory 1985 VK Commodore injection put on a 1966 186ci engine block. No pollution requirements, but the motor does not run any harder than a 186ci motor with a Holley 350

A friend has a 186 engine in his EH and runs a whizz bang Microtech? Haltech? something system with VK Commodore injectors and manifold. It hammers. The thing absoloutley blows the factory system away. Admitedly mine was plug and play, and his had to have mapping done with a laptop, but that is what he is good at.

I am not disagreeing with anyone, just forwarding an opinion. It may all be different for Subaru motors. The EJ22 in the bus started first time with factory ECU.
EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#389451
Back to the o2 sensor.... The more inputs a motor has to analyse what the engine is doing the better I say. The factory ecu is fine if you only want to run stock pretty much stock settings. With our conversions, there are so many variables which can differ from convesrsion to conversion..no power steering, exhaust size, shape and flow, dump pipe, turbo size, air filter, intercooler. All of these will require a slightly different setting in the computer through MAP sensor, airtemp, load, tps, water temp and other varieties of maps. With more boost and all these changes the last thing I want is to be leaning out under full boost..... With the aftermarket ecu, you can instantly see your af ratio and adjust to fix. I have heard of a couple of wrx's that have gone on the dyno for a power run to find out they are really lean. They never knew and had to get a chip reprogrammed which still may be out.

Horses for courses...if you are happy with the stock ecu, why would you change.....even if I ran the stock ecu I still would have had the short in the original harness and subsequent ignition module and coil problems.
Regardless I chose an aftermarket ecu, and like its features.

Glen, just put it on the dyno for a power run to make sure its got the right af ratio under boost.... peace of mind.

Mattnn[ Edited on 24-7-05 by boof2332 ]

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#389536
So i guess they dont have a sensor ???? :blah:blah:blah
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

boof2332 Custom Title Time!

1,210 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#389547
Oh Im sorry...did we forget to clarify that one for you vw54.. It does not have one! Feel free to ask any other questions if we get side tracked in, if not informative, entertaining debate. I know how complex these suby engines can seem at a glance.

Matt

Jak Rizzo Insano Dub Head

837 posts · joined Apr 2004 ·

#389555
If I was Andrew I'd get it on the dyno just to be sure, I'm sure that Al from Sunspares would agree. Theres countless stories on the rexxy forums of guys with standard ecu's , with & without 'chips' runniong lean on boost especially with non standard exhausts & filters/air intakes. Would hate to see anything happen to all your hard work Glen.
Best to be safe
regards
Jak

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#389559
heheehh looks like this post got HIJACKED hehehhee
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#389863
Jak Rizzo wrote:If I was Andrew I'd get it on the dyno just to be sure, I'm sure that Al from Sunspares would agree. Theres countless stories on the rexxy forums of guys with standard ecu's , with & without 'chips' runniong lean on boost especially with non standard exhausts & filters/air intakes. Would hate to see anything happen to all your hard work Glen.
Best to be safe
regards
Jak
The 220km/h up-the-freeway-off-ramp dyno? :P
Yeah fair call will put a probe up its bum one day. Sunspares' Al has already tweaked it and he seems to know what he's talking about:thumb
Pay your debts, CxxT

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#390380
Steve, I put your porsche ratios into the Excel Dyno I made. Your first to second gear jump is the biggest. Thought you might be interested in the chart of it.


Hi Wes

Thanks for that, I will maybe only use 6,000 rpm, maybe 6,500 at times. This is the same box that Reub is running in his bug.

Steve

PS, Dave I learnt from the best............